- Reaction score
- 11,340
- Points
- 1,160
C-RAM and C-UAS
The current movie "A House of Dynamite" re-introduces the "hitting a bullet with a bullet" motif that was originally coined during the Reagan Star Wars era to illustrate how futile the quest was. I suspect the producers of the movie might have been seeking yhe same effect.
But time has moved on. Afghanistan introduced C-RAM to the vocabulary, Counter-Rocket,Artillery,Mortar systems.
These were introduced to defend bases against Taliban insurgents tossing the occasional volley of missiles of various types. The US brought the naval Phalanx 20mm CIWS system ashore. Germany produced their Rheinmetall MANTIS C-RAM system anchored by their Oerlikon 35mm Millenium turrets which have also been used aboard NATO ships.
MANTIS begat Skynex. Skynex begat SkyRanger 35 which begat SkyRanger 30 based on the 30x173 mm round.
Recently a Rheinmetall exec left and joined the Australian company EOS which has been enjoying success with its SLINGER C-UAS turret based on the lightweight American M230-LF chain gun firing the 30x113 mm round.
Concurrently the Israelis have introduced their Trophy system to protect their tanks from ATGMs and their Iron Dome systems to protect their cities from mortars, rockets and missiles of both the cruise and ballistic varieties.
Hitting bullets with bullets is part of today's battle plan.
....
The Israelis initiated the Trophy type Active Protection System to defend against ATGMs. Passive defense systems, armour plate, weren't fetting the job done. The weight was becoming too much and the ATGMs were still penetrating by striking where the armour was thinnest. APS systems became sought after but expensive additions that raised the cost of both MBTs and IFVs.
....
And then came Ukraine, following on the heels of Azerbaijan versus Armenia. Tanks have not done well in a drone rich environment. For that matter vehicles generally have done poorly, as has the PBI.
To counter drones autonomous lightweight turrets mounting machine guns and autocannons like the EOS SLINGER have become very popular. these incorporate detection and tracking systems along with the gun. Some heavier systems incorporate missiles, lasers and RF capabilities.
to my eye these appear very much like longer-ranged and more effective variants of the Trophy system. Trophy's shot gun has been replaced by a fully automatic weapon with a longer range and a deep magazine.
There are similarities to the German Gepard, the mother of the Skyranger family, which seems to be having a very good war judging from the lack of casualties on the Oryx list.
....
Digression.
81 mm mortar - terminal velocity of 50 to 100 m/s
120 mm mortar - terminal velocity of 150 to 250 m/s
122 mm rocket - terminal velocity of 70 to 100 m/s
155 mm shell - terminal velocity of 250 m/s
Javelin ATGM - terminal descent speed 0f 100 m/s
DJIA Mavik - velocity up to 25 m/s
SkyRanger/Slinger type systems - are they cost effective in both the C-RAM and C-UAS roles? Are they sufficiently cost effective that passive armour can be sacrificed? Can the standard be reduced from 30mm to 7.62 mm and blast?
...
The C-UAS/C-RAM turret would also have utility against ground targets.
...
Suppose Canada were to back up a step to the Coyote and replace the 25mm Delco turret with a SkyRanger 30x 173mm and Bisons were fitted with EOS Slinger 30x 113mm. Both turrets are remotely operated with both autonomous and man-in-loop options and neither penetrate the hull leaving the entire passenger compartment open and keeping the crew below the turret ring. The lighter vehicle would be more deployable. would it be adequately survivable?
How about it were matched with a heavier weight tracked stable-mate focused on the assault?
The current movie "A House of Dynamite" re-introduces the "hitting a bullet with a bullet" motif that was originally coined during the Reagan Star Wars era to illustrate how futile the quest was. I suspect the producers of the movie might have been seeking yhe same effect.
But time has moved on. Afghanistan introduced C-RAM to the vocabulary, Counter-Rocket,Artillery,Mortar systems.
These were introduced to defend bases against Taliban insurgents tossing the occasional volley of missiles of various types. The US brought the naval Phalanx 20mm CIWS system ashore. Germany produced their Rheinmetall MANTIS C-RAM system anchored by their Oerlikon 35mm Millenium turrets which have also been used aboard NATO ships.
MANTIS begat Skynex. Skynex begat SkyRanger 35 which begat SkyRanger 30 based on the 30x173 mm round.
Recently a Rheinmetall exec left and joined the Australian company EOS which has been enjoying success with its SLINGER C-UAS turret based on the lightweight American M230-LF chain gun firing the 30x113 mm round.
Concurrently the Israelis have introduced their Trophy system to protect their tanks from ATGMs and their Iron Dome systems to protect their cities from mortars, rockets and missiles of both the cruise and ballistic varieties.
Hitting bullets with bullets is part of today's battle plan.
....
The Israelis initiated the Trophy type Active Protection System to defend against ATGMs. Passive defense systems, armour plate, weren't fetting the job done. The weight was becoming too much and the ATGMs were still penetrating by striking where the armour was thinnest. APS systems became sought after but expensive additions that raised the cost of both MBTs and IFVs.
....
And then came Ukraine, following on the heels of Azerbaijan versus Armenia. Tanks have not done well in a drone rich environment. For that matter vehicles generally have done poorly, as has the PBI.
To counter drones autonomous lightweight turrets mounting machine guns and autocannons like the EOS SLINGER have become very popular. these incorporate detection and tracking systems along with the gun. Some heavier systems incorporate missiles, lasers and RF capabilities.
to my eye these appear very much like longer-ranged and more effective variants of the Trophy system. Trophy's shot gun has been replaced by a fully automatic weapon with a longer range and a deep magazine.
There are similarities to the German Gepard, the mother of the Skyranger family, which seems to be having a very good war judging from the lack of casualties on the Oryx list.
....
Digression.
81 mm mortar - terminal velocity of 50 to 100 m/s
120 mm mortar - terminal velocity of 150 to 250 m/s
122 mm rocket - terminal velocity of 70 to 100 m/s
155 mm shell - terminal velocity of 250 m/s
Javelin ATGM - terminal descent speed 0f 100 m/s
DJIA Mavik - velocity up to 25 m/s
SkyRanger/Slinger type systems - are they cost effective in both the C-RAM and C-UAS roles? Are they sufficiently cost effective that passive armour can be sacrificed? Can the standard be reduced from 30mm to 7.62 mm and blast?
...
The C-UAS/C-RAM turret would also have utility against ground targets.
...
Suppose Canada were to back up a step to the Coyote and replace the 25mm Delco turret with a SkyRanger 30x 173mm and Bisons were fitted with EOS Slinger 30x 113mm. Both turrets are remotely operated with both autonomous and man-in-loop options and neither penetrate the hull leaving the entire passenger compartment open and keeping the crew below the turret ring. The lighter vehicle would be more deployable. would it be adequately survivable?
How about it were matched with a heavier weight tracked stable-mate focused on the assault?
