Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Quirky]

I mean there are more & more seniors looking for part time gigs, and Wal-Mart isn't for everyone...

25% of the population will be 65+ by 2028 in Canada. We will need them in any capacity to keep this insane gov spending going.

 

[Brad Sallows]

For the most part seniors will either be retired or working time-filling jobs that don't pay enough to make them appreciable contributors to income tax revenues, and their retirement savings (those that have them) won't be going as far as before inflation took a bite. Some of them will be voting for whoever promises to increase payments to contemporary beneficiaries of CPP, OAS, and GIS. Whoever makes any kind of promises - no matter how wild - to improve access to health care might also get their votes.

What I expect to happen is that taxes will increase substantially on the upper quarter or third of filers by income. The amount won't be noticed by the super-rich, but below that small fraction there is going to be a large tranch of taxpayers whose disposable income starts to shrink - maybe starting at $70K income, if you're wondering whether that is likely to include yourself. Roughly half of Canadians receive more in transfers than they pay in income tax, so don't look to them.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

0l

Security lol. Just beef up the commissionaire sections.

Launch the Geriatric Response Force!!!!

 

[daftandbarmy]

0l

Launch the Geriatric Response Force!!!!

I'm REDy

 

[dimsum]

0l

Launch the Geriatric Response Force!!!!

 

[FJAG]

Spending rose sharply, in real dollar terms, from 2002 to 2011 (Afghanistan) but in 2012 Defence Minister Peter MacKay decided, on the advice of his admirals and generals, to disobey a pretty clear directive from Prime Minister Harper to cut the HQ bloat and the PM, in his turn, cut DND's funding sharply. By 2014 Canada spent less than 1% of GDP on defence and that, I think, was a shot aimed directly at Rick Hillier and Walt Natynczyk and so on.

Under pressure from the GOB (Great Orange Buffon in the White House) Prime Minister Trudeau has made the defence budget rise from 1.15% ($18B) to 1,4% ($23B) but that is not even keeping pace with inflation.

The message I get from the numbers is that Canadians are unwilling to spend on defence. 2% may be a red line that Canadians are unwilling to allow any government to cross.

And, based on the first para above and the transformation report by Leslie on where the new Afghan money for personnel ended up, it seems clear that the generals and admirals and EXs are more than happy to spend money in Ottawa and the greater defence administrative system bloat rather than on defence capabilities.

Personally, as a Canadian, I'm willing to spend 2% of the GDP on defence, but not until DND/CAF sorts out its personnel imbalance, its bloated administrative system and the moribund procurement system.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

And, based on the first para above and the transformation report by Leslie on where the new Afghan money for personnel ended up, it seems clear that the generals and admirals and EXs are more than happy to spend money in Ottawa and the greater defence administrative system bloat rather than on defence capabilities.

Personally, as a Canadian, I'm willing to spend 2% of the GDP on defence, but not until DND/CAF sorts out its personnel imbalance, its bloated administrative system and the moribund procurement system.

Agreed.

You could hand DND/CAF 4% of GDP tomorrow and it would have zero positive effect on how we do business.

We still have 6 "Divisional" HQs fully staffed, yet could probably field a Brigade's worth of personnel, Reg and Reserve, and roughly a Combat Team's worth of assets to support within each Division (completely glossing over the fact that 3 of those 6 Divisional HQs lack a CMBG in them.)

Unless we are pulled into Article 5, or we are outright attacked; no government of any political stripe will give the order to mobilize enough personnel to field a full Division. It's a money pit to maintain these structures "just in case."

 

[Brad Sallows]

We need all those HQs. One of the Lessons Learned of the war in Ukraine is that the enemy artillery we don't have much to fight back with is probably going to wipe HQs off the map on a regular basis.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Personally, as a Canadian, I'm willing to spend 2% of the GDP on defence, but not until DND/CAF sorts out its personnel imbalance, its bloated administrative system and the moribund procurement system.

And I'm guessing that the politicians are thinking the same. No need to throw good money after bad until the CAF can get its internal act together...

... which will probably be never

 

[kev994]

Agreed.

You could hand DND/CAF 4% of GDP tomorrow and it would have zero positive effect on how we do business.

This close to the end of FY they may as well hand it directly to CORCAN and skip the middle-man. Just drop off some crappy furniture that’s identical to what’s here now.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Agreed.

You could hand DND/CAF 4% of GDP tomorrow and it would have zero positive effect on how we do business.

We still have 6 "Divisional" HQs fully staffed, yet could probably field a Brigade's worth of personnel, Reg and Reserve, and roughly a Combat Team's worth of assets to support within each Division (completely glossing over the fact that 3 of those 6 Divisional HQs lack a CMBG in them.)

Unless we are pulled into Article 5, or we are outright attacked; no government of any political stripe will give the order to mobilize enough personnel to field a full Division. It's a money pit to maintain these structures "just in case."

The RCAF isn’t sitting around in garrison waiting for a deployment - we’re “operational” every day of the year.

I can’t speak for the entire RCAF but I know my fleet could put more flying (gas and TD $) to good use.

Use some of the money to buy things, use some of the money to train people to use the things you buy. My fleet would benefit hugely from that combined with an increase in YFR.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The RCAF isn’t sitting around in garrison waiting for a deployment - we’re “operational” every day of the year.

I can’t speak for the entire RCAF but I know my fleet could put more flying (gas and TD $) to good use.

Use some of the money to buy things, use some of the money to train people to use the things you buy. My fleet would benefit hugely from that combined with an increase in YFR.

You stop it! If it's not Army it's not doing anything.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You stop it! If it's not Army it's not doing anything.

You’ve been at your current work location for a while now; would you shut it down and give the money to the RCN for ships and sailors?

 

[KevinB]

The RCAF isn’t sitting around in garrison waiting for a deployment - we’re “operational” every day of the year.

I can’t speak for the entire RCAF but I know my fleet could put more flying (gas and TD $) to good use.

Use some of the money to buy things, use some of the money to train people to use the things you buy. My fleet would benefit hugely from that combined with an increase in YFR.

Sorry how old are your planes?
Or the rest of the RCAF assets?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sorry how old are your planes?
Or the rest of the RCAF assets?

Our fleet is this many years old

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sorry how old are your planes?
Or the rest of the RCAF assets?

And our fleet is this big

 

[Halifax Tar]

You’ve been at your current work location for a while now; would you shut it down and give the money to the RCN for ships and sailors?

It's much the opposite where I am. In Halifax the Army is the bastard child.

It's been eye opening for some when I express that the CBG is not the priority here. There grey floaty things are.

But what has been refreshing is working with a bunch of people who want to be here. Stay tuned, I've been approached and am contemplating a major change.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The RCAF isn’t sitting around in garrison waiting for a deployment - we’re “operational” every day of the year.

I can’t speak for the entire RCAF but I know my fleet could put more flying (gas and TD $) to good use.

Use some of the money to buy things, use some of the money to train people to use the things you buy. My fleet would benefit hugely from that combined with an increase in YFR.

I only can speak to my own experience and observations. The most I have been exposed to how the RCAF operates were in and out of 8 Wing to head to theatre.

My point was mainly that while we need more $, we tend to take that money and piss it away in acts of delusions of grandeur thar making what we have more functional.

I would love to see more money as well. I need to get folks firing more than 49 rounds a year to stay proficient on their personal weapons. I need more money to perform the crucial O&M tasks that have been kicked down the road for decades.

The Army is garrison bound, yes; but there has been a lot of "ridden hard, put away wet." In the past 10 years that has come to roost in 2022. Especially personnel wise.

I find exercises in "who has it worst" only serve to deflect from those truly at fault, and continue the infighting between the L1s.

 

[dimsum]

It's been eye opening for some when I express that the CBG is not the priority here. There grey floaty things are.

There are people in Halifax who seriously don't think the RCN is the big priority?

Unlike Esquimalt, where the base is tucked away in another cove, it's pretty impossible not to see the Atlantic fleet when driving over the bridges.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There are people in Halifax who seriously don't think the RCN is the big priority?

Unlike Esquimalt, where the base is tucked away in another cove, it's pretty impossible not to see the Atlantic fleet when driving over the bridges.

There absolutely are.

I truly think the CBG would be better supported if it was able to establish 36 Svc (Halifax) into a 3rd line CBG supporting logistics/maintenance unit and detach from needing to go through CFB Halifax units.

And it could be done. Just need the positions and the money.

I have truly loved my time at the CBG HQ. The Army Reserve has been absolutely refreshing. The can do and positive attitude is so refreshing. I just think things from a sustainment and maintenance perspective thing could be better done independently.