Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Kirkhill]

-Navy isn’t isolated, West and East coasts in major centres. I think.
-Army has wainwright, which could be closed and relocated to Edmonton. Shilo is close enough to Brandon?
-Air Force has Cold Lake which is the biggest isolated cancer. That’s not going away with the infrastructure planned for the F-35. Greenwood could be moved to Halifax airport. Maybe?

All of which would play to the "hollowing out" of Canada as the population moves from a large number of dispersed communities to an ever shrinking number of urban centres. That, in my view, tends to promote a "colonial" mentality with each city developing an independent character with its own hinterland. The hinterlands butt up against each other and isolate the cities. The hinterlands also become prey for third parties willing to pay more attention to them than their patron cities do.

What does Canada look like with 10,000,000 km2 of land and 40,000,000 people packed into 10 cities occupying 1% of that area?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I doubt Hfx Intl would want the air weapons stuff there.

Can Shearwater be brought back to fixed wing operation ?

 

[Good2Golf]

What does Canada look like with 10,000,000 km2 of land and 40,000,000 people packed into 10 cities occupying 1% of that area?

…like a larger version of 65,000 Inuit packed into 53 resettlement communities across the North…

 

[dapaterson]

Can Shearwater be brought back to fixed wing operation ?

I'm not certain, but I think they've decommissioned the long runway, and the current field is about 1800m or so, well below minimums for current production 737s.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not certain, but I think they've decommissioned the long runway, and the current field is about 1800m or so, well below minimums for current production 737s.

That's a shame. I too don't see a reason for both Greenwood and Shearwater to exist.

I suppose local economies and such.

 

[Kirkhill]

That's a shame. I too don't see a reason for both Greenwood and Shearwater to exist.

I suppose local economies and such.

Or Greenwood, Shearwater and Stanfield?

 

[Kirkhill]

…like a larger version of 65,000 Inuit packed into 53 resettlement communities across the North…

Makes life a lot easier for Covid and the next plague.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Or Greenwood, Shearwater and Stanfield?

Shearwater just does helos now.

Maybe a Cessna?

 

[GR66]

I'm not certain, but I think they've decommissioned the long runway, and the current field is about 1800m or so, well below minimums for current production 737s.

According to Wikipedia DND still owns the land for the old runway 16/34 which is (was) 2,743m long. Not sure if any infrastructure was added that would prevent it from being recommissioned (if that's the correct term).

As for the Army, would there be any advantage to concentrating all three Battalions from each of the Infantry Regiments together in a single location (Edmonton/Petawawa/Valcartier)? Are there many geographic moves of personnel within the Regiments?

 

[dapaterson]

A valid question. OSINT satellite image (aka Google) shows the long runway (a) having large Xs painted all over it to indicate it's not serviceable, and (b) the perimeter fencing of the airfield does not include the long runway. I suspect that its not just a question of paving, but also of radars, lighting, signalling, crewing etc etc.

Shearwater · Halifax, NS, Canada

Halifax, NS, Canada

www.google.com

 

[markppcli]

According to Wikipedia DND still owns the land for the old runway 16/34 which is (was) 2,743m long. Not sure if any infrastructure was added that would prevent it from being recommissioned (if that's the correct term).

As for the Army, would there be any advantage to concentrating all three Battalions from each of the Infantry Regiments together in a single location (Edmonton/Petawawa/Valcartier)? Are there many geographic moves of personnel within the Regiments?

So typically you’ll get posted out to a school, then get posted to a different Bn from there.

I think there would be advantages to having all 3 Bns of the PPCLI co located, having a Bn to support Gagetown makes some sense to me, but I’d say the bigger change would be to have the schools (Meaford and Wainwright) moved to the operational bases so we can cut down our postings / moves.

 

[lenaitch]

Isolated bases should just be done away with quite frankly.

Why defines an "isolated base"? Greenwood? North Bay? Gagetown? From a later post, even the 20-ish km from Borden to Barrie can be isolating if you don't have wheels. According to some, locating all bases in big cities would help recruiting. I imagine it would only cost several billion to consolidate, remediate the old bases, and pay for the transfers. At least they could save some money because provided housing shouldn't be needed.

 

[GR66]

So typically you’ll get posted out to a school, then get posted to a different Bn from there.

I think there would be advantages to having all 3 Bns of the PPCLI co located, having a Bn to support Gagetown makes some sense to me, but I’d say the bigger change would be to have the schools (Meaford and Wainwright) moved to the operational bases so we can cut down our postings / moves.

Possibly also stream Infantry members into Light or Mech trades with Anglo Mech Infantry all in Edmonton, Franco Mech all in Valcartier and Light Infantry all in Petawawa?

 

[GR66]

Why defines an "isolated base"? Greenwood? North Bay? Gagetown? From a later post, even the 20-ish km from Borden to Barrie can be isolating if you don't have wheels. According to some, locating all bases in big cities would help recruiting. I imagine it would only cost several billion to consolidate, remediate the old bases, and pay for the transfers. At least they could save some money because provided housing shouldn't be needed.

For locations like Borden, Gagetown, etc. a good, subsidized public transit system and expanded on base housing would be a lot cheaper than relocating the bases. Places like Cold Lake that aren't close to at least a medium-sized centre are a more difficult issue.

 

[dimsum]

Why defines an "isolated base"? Greenwood? North Bay? Gagetown?

None of the above. This document details the Isolated Posts, which receive extra allowances:

Table to CBI 11.2.03​

Isolated Post	Environment Classification	Living Cost Differential	Fuel and Utilities Differential
Alert, NU	5	Sans objet	Sans objet
Chevery, QC	3	3	Sans objet
Goose Bay, NL	3	1	Sans objet
Inukjuak, QCFootnote 1	4	9	11 (01.10.20)
Iqaluit, NU	4	11	15
Kuujjuaq, QCFootnote 1	4	11	14 (01.10.20)
Masset, BC	3	2	Sans objet
Puvirnituq, QCFootnote 1	4	9	12 (01.10.20)
Quaqtaq, QCFootnote 1	4	13	14 (01.10.20)
Salluit, QCFootnote 1	4	11	12 (01.10.20)
Whitehorse, YT	1	Sans objet	12
Yellowknife, NT	1	2	30

 

[markppcli]

Possibly also stream Infantry members into Light or Mech trades with Anglo Mech Infantry all in Edmonton, Franco Mech all in Valcartier and Light Infantry all in Petawawa?

No, we don’t have the numbers to do that and breadth of experience is valuable.

Why defines an "isolated base"? Greenwood? North Bay? Gagetown? From a later post, even the 20-ish km from Borden to Barrie can be isolating if you don't have wheels. According to some, locating all bases in big cities would help recruiting. I imagine it would only cost several billion to consolidate, remediate the old bases, and pay for the transfers. At least they could save some money because provided housing shouldn't be needed.

I would say if it’s more than 40km from a population centre of 15000 it’s isolated. I would take those old bases and keep them as skeleton crew training centres. It’s less recruiting more retention, trying to keep some one in while telling them they’ll have move somewhere that will be prohibitive to their spouses career isn’t helping anyone when we can have those bases functions performed elsewhere.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Or Greenwood, Shearwater and Stanfield?

It’s much easier to conduct the trg that goes on at Greenwood in Greenwood. Not just the OTUs but things like Para drops and low level hover/confined area stuff.

There’s also the noise factor. Not sure the residents close to Shearwater would be all happy to have an operational SAR and LRP Sqn doing their business at all hours of the day and night.

Greenwood also performs other functions for other aircraft that I’m not sure are common knowledge, but there are good reasons to maintain military airfields and associated supporting pers and infrastructure.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That's a shame. I too don't see a reason for both Greenwood and Shearwater to exist.

I suppose local economies and such.

If anything, close YAW.

But the time to make that decision was before all the new building were constructed on the upper base there.

 

[dimsum]

If anything, close YAW.

Cue cries of hundreds of Maritime Helicopter folks when they realize the Sqns are moving to Greenwood

 

[Halifax Tar]

If anything, close YAW.

But the time to make that decision was before all the new building were constructed on the upper base there.

Probably the better option right now.

Divest of shearwater all together.