Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Halifax Tar]

Except the Navy does force generation during force employment, so that balance always causes friction with CJOC.

It is wild that we do this. This and the state of our ships... god help the first crews to go into harms way.

 

[PrairieFella]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution. The politicians now are signing the execution warrants for the troops in contact tomorrow. Bloody shameful. This government (or any government in recent memory) doesn't deserve its military.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It is wild that we do this. This and the state of our ships... god help the first crews to go into harms way.

Not really, a lot of our billets are a combination of having a job while doing training, so pretty normal to be working on OJTs for the next job while doing one of the MSE positions until you get to the EO/CERA spots (and then you are doing the oversight of training).

Tapers way down but no better way to figure out how to do the next job then watching someone else do it and then practicing it yourself. Also things like directing repair parties etc are all pretty core skills, and a lot easier to figure out while deployed when you can ask someone for advice or checking your plan.

Even once you are the final stop, you still talk it through with the team, but it's pretty easy to keep doing training without interfering with the work, and frankly we need to do the drills regularly anyway to make sure things are actually working.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not really, a lot of our billets are a combination of having a job while doing training, so pretty normal to be working on OJTs for the next job while doing one of the MSE positions until you get to the EO/CERA spots (and then you are doing the oversight of training).

Tapers way down but no better way to figure out how to do the next job then watching someone else do it and then practicing it yourself. Also things like directing repair parties etc are all pretty core skills, and a lot easier to figure out while deployed when you can ask someone for advice or checking your plan.

Even once you are the final stop, you still talk it through with the team, but it's pretty easy to keep doing training without interfering with the work, and frankly we need to do the drills regularly anyway to make sure things are actually working.

Working on packages is one thing, rotating good positions of crews every 2 or 3 months is another.

It's also one thing for engineers and another for Ops folks.

We pushed back very hard and beat most of it away, we were lucky.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As I recall didn't Hiller war people about this just after our first deployment to Afghanistan ?
And I argue we were in probably better shape then.

Should read warn ..sigh .

 

[dapaterson]

Part of the political issue I see as well is NDHQ needs start saying "No" the politicians keep committing us to things like a full brigade it Latvia, etc tell us to make it happen while trying to rebuild, reconstitute etc. We are getting pulled in every direction, not to mention domestic ops, and No one seems to be willing to say "sorry sir we can't actually meet these commitments" to the MND or cabinet.

You might be surprised to see how things work, how options are presented by those organizations for leadership to consider.

In the immortal words of Pogo possum, we have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

[eliminator]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution. The politicians now are signing the execution warrants for the troops in contact tomorrow. Bloody shameful. This government (or any government in recent memory) doesn't deserve its military.

I donno. Even if all the L1 Commanders resigned tomorrow in protest, after a few days of coverage on CBC (complete with brain-melting posts in the comments sections), they would all be promptly replaced; back to 'business as usual'.

Now is the time for leadership, not rearranging of deck chairs.

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

 

[PrairieFella]

I donno. Even if all the L1 Commanders resigned tomorrow in protest, after a few days of coverage on CBC (complete with brain-melting posts in the comments sections), they would all be promptly replaced; back to 'business as usual'.

Now is the time for leadership, not rearranging of deck chairs.

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

Good point. Let's be real too, were so beyond the point of any return, no government is going to near-double defence spending and loosen their byzantine procurement regulations, it gives them a very efficient cost-saving tool by being able to return billions to TBS every year haha.

 

[dapaterson]

Good point. Let's be real too, were so beyond the point of any return, no government is going to near-double defence spending and loosen their byzantine procurement regulations, it gives them a very efficient cost-saving tool by being able to return billions to TBS every year haha.

Explain what you mean by "return billions to TBS every year". Are you familiar with how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management? Can you discuss the OBCF and how it operates?

Interestingly, in the Supplementary estimates recently tabled, the GoC is seeking to give DND an additional billion dollars in capital funding this FY for the Husky and Polaris acquisitions.

Supplementary Estimates (C) 2023-24

www.pbo-dpb.ca

 

[PrairieFella]

Explain what you mean by "return billions to TBS every year". Are you familiar with how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management? Can you discuss the OBCF and how it operates?

Interestingly, in the Supplementary estimates recently tabled, the GoC is seeking to give DND an additional billion dollars in capital funding this FY for the Husky and Polaris acquisitions.

Supplementary Estimates (C) 2023-24

www.pbo-dpb.ca

Dude, no need to try and dunk lol. This is a niche, legacy internet forum and none of us or our opinions on the state of the CAF matter in the grand scheme. I'm obviously being hyperbolic. Of course I don't know (or care) "how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management". I know my job in the MO and I'm very knowledgeable in the ins and outs of the Act that governs my civilian job.

We're shitting on successive governments and their failure to give a care about the CAF, that's it.

 

[dapaterson]

Dude, no need to try and dunk lol. This is a niche, legacy internet forum and none of us or our opinions on the state of the CAF matter in the grand scheme. I'm obviously being hyperbolic. Of course I don't know (or care) "how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management". I know my job in the MO and I'm very knowledgeable in the ins and outs of the Act that governs my civilian job.

We're shitting on successive governments and their failure to give a care about the CAF, that's it.

Following approval of the Supps C, the GoC will have given DND/CAF $31,272,655,246 in authorities this FY. Do you know how it is managed?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

It opened up promotion opportunities for those who didn't quit, of course

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Following approval of the Supps C, the GoC will have given DND/CAF $31,272,655,246 in authorities this FY. Do you know how it is managed?

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

No, but most of that $31Bn is returned to the government Canadian taxpayer in the form of porkbarelling reinvestment in Canadian Industry and other Ponzi schemes programs we are roped in on partnered in.

Remember, DND/CAF is the largest government department (that shouldnt be a government department) and thus we need to be prudent stewards of fiscal responsib- I can't finish that sentence without throwing up.

We are another economic stimulus package to Canadian industries that cannot support our defence requirements. Our government does not see us as more than a hog, fed scraps, only to be slaughtered when the cows and chickens stop producing milk and eggs.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

No, but most of that $31Bn is returned to the government Canadian taxpayer in the form of porkbarelling reinvestment in Canadian Industry and other Ponzi schemes programs we are roped in on partnered in.

Remember, DND/CAF is the largest government department (that shouldnt be a government department) and thus we need to be prudent stewards of fiscal responsib- I can't finish that sentence without throwing up.

We are another economic stimulus package to Canadian industries that cannot support our defence requirements. Our government does not see us as more than a hog, fed scraps, only to be slaughtered when the cows and chickens stop producing milk and eggs.

Industry and the CAF are like Chickens and Pigs for breakfast.

The chicken is involved. The pig is committed.

We be the pig.

Just sayin'

 

[Good2Golf]

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

Although perhaps arguably better than the $60B/year spent on our massively increased since 2015, but no more substantively productive federal public service…

 

[FJAG]

Part of the political issue I see as well is NDHQ needs start saying "No" the politicians keep committing us to things like a full brigade it Latvia, etc tell us to make it happen while trying to rebuild, reconstitute etc. We are getting pulled in every direction, not to mention domestic ops, and No one seems to be willing to say "sorry sir we can't actually meet these commitments" to the MND or cabinet.

When someone gives you $31 Billion a year, and you spend half of it on salaries, you better have a darn good excuse for saying no.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Working on packages is one thing, rotating good positions of crews every 2 or 3 months is another.

It's also one thing for engineers and another for Ops folks.

We pushed back very hard and beat most of it away, we were lucky.

Yeah, fair point, I think that's insane. Even with the people taking deployed leave you can get it covered by a small group so that one person will cover off 4 or 5 leave blocks for their peers so the actual rotation of crew is pretty minimal, aside from the one off positions, where it's a Command call if they can get it.

 

[Navy_Pete]

When someone gives you $31 Billion a year, and you spend half of it on salaries, you better have a darn good excuse for saying no.

That doesn't really translate into working equipment though when budgets for parts, training, in service projects etc get cut, and capitol projects get slowed down by the government (while also needing more people to do the project work because of the ludicrous bureaucracy).

Because the ops tempo is so high whatever is left is just spread thin so that instead of having some sustainable capability and some capability gaps, we've burned the candles at both ends for long enough to break everything or let it rust out.

At the moment for this year I don't have funding to support basic ongoing maintenance for life saving equipment that is required to make sure it stays working, so trying to figure out what is the lowest priority fire fighting equipment that will get cut. Not even really talking about anything fancy, just basic COTs equipment that meets commercial marine rules.