Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[MJP]

Being able to place some Technical SME’s into positions that can be paid higher than a NCO band may pay, and be able to keep them in certain positions without them “outranking” or needing to be moved for promotions etc.

We had a low-key version of this with the Tech CWO folks. Lots of reasons they got reduced in number but it was pretty apparent to most folks it was just a place to put people that weren't gonna progress so they just sat there blocking everyone and for many provided marginal value to the CAF. I suspect any new Tech WO+ stream would fall victim to the same issue

 

[PrairieFella]

I agree most combat arms do not need to be on full time employment. If were going to make cuts it should be coming from them.

I'm not sure cutting our teeth at the 11th hour before a potential war is such a good plan.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not sure cutting our teeth at the 11th hour before a potential war is such a good plan.

Never fear, I don't make these decisions.

We had a low-key version of this with the Tech CWO folks. Lots of reasons they got reduced in number but it was pretty apparent to most folks it was just a place to put people that weren't gonna progress so they just sat there blocking everyone and for many provided marginal value to the CAF. I suspect any new Tech WO+ stream would fall victim to the same issue

The idea of Tech WO is a wholly separate rank structure in between NCMs and Os. But not part of either.

 

[MJP]

The idea of Tech WO is a wholly separate rank structure in between NCMs and Os. But not part of either.

I am aware of the distinction. We had a temulike version that was poorly managed, I am not convinced an amazon version would be managed any better

 

[FJAG]

Are you advocating that we introduce conscription?

No.

I'm advocating much greater use of reserve forces for the army with a return of the hybrid system which worked with the AD units.

I'm also advocating changing aviation to include a US style flying WO system with about half of aviation becoming ResF.

What do you think the RCN should be doing ?

I'm a bit adrift on that.

My gut tells me that the Navy could probably make better use of their NAVRes as well by way of hybrid crews for many of its ships. I expect that technical complexity is an issue but to me that is merely a challenge to create the right type of initial training and an adequate annual exercise regime.

My biggest concern with the RCN is the number of ships we have that are without serious armament. They might be useful in some limited roles, but to me, any ship without at least some air defence and anti-ship systems seems a waste of a hull. Over and above new subs and the bew destroyers, I'd like to see more low-cost, minimally-manned, but armed, coastal defence vessels. And I think many of those could and should be ResF or hybrid ResF heavy units.

I agree most combat arms do not need to be on full time employment. If were going to make cuts it should be coming from them.

I don't propose any cuts to RegF strength.

If I had my way I'd trim out Ottawa a lot and send those PYs to form more units. I think our administrative system is too large and too complex and needs a massive reset.

My aim is solely to change the current system so as to make the existing ResF for all three services more effective and equipped so that they constitute a rapidly mobilizable force. Whether that's with more helicopters and drones for the RCAF, more armed hulls for the RCN or more equipped and trained brigades for the CA.

I'm a firm believer in what Rumsfeld said about "the army you have." When things go to hell in a hand basket it will do so relatively quickly and there won't be time to buy equipment or ammunition or train folks. You need to build mass during peacetime but keep as much of it as you possible can on a stand-by with the reduced costs that come with ResF annual salaries and annual equipment wear and tear and maintenance. Not only does that peacetime mass give you a mobilizable force but it adds to a credible and effective deterrence.

 

[Castus]

So spec pay and a cease progress?

I have seen highly skilled SNCOs with excellent tradecraft cease progression and then be posted anyways. The philosophy from the career side (presumably CMP itself) was that ceasing progression has no impact whatsoever on postings. So these individuals are then cycled out of units where they are doing critical work, and into low tempo positions which they then often release from. Nobody is happy.

As for spec pay, as I understand this is managed by the Treasury Board. They are not inclined to grant it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No.

I'm advocating much greater use of reserve forces for the army with a return of the hybrid system which worked with the AD units.

I'm also advocating changing aviation to include a US style flying WO system with about half of aviation becoming ResF.

If the reserve forces want to be more than what they are now they need to spear the change. We've talk about this before. And I am big fan of the ARes. But they need to bring forward their own ideas for institutional change that will show the CAF that they want to be more than a private members bar that occasionally produces some augmenters.

Right now the ARes is being what it wants to be and the RegF Army is ok with that. IMHO The ARes needs to be its own catalyst for structural and institutional change.

For the record I think your issue is largely with the ARes and I don't think RACF Res or NAVRes have the issues and I think they are much better incorporated into their parent services.

I'm a bit adrift on that.

My gut tells me that the Navy could probably make better use of their NAVRes as well by way of hybrid crews for many of its ships. I expect that technical complexity is an issue but to me that is merely a challenge to create the right type of initial training and an adequate annual exercise regime.

My biggest concern with the RCN is the number of ships we have that are without serious armament. They might be useful in some limited roles, but to me, any ship without at least some air defence and anti-ship systems seems a waste of a hull. Over and above new subs and the bew destroyers, I'd like to see more low-cost, minimally-manned, but armed, coastal defence vessels. And I think many of those could and should be ResF or hybrid ResF heavy units.

We have hybrid crews already. In fact with the exception of submarines every RCN vessel has always had some mix of res and reg force on it. Sometimes lesser, but right now there are quite a few NAVRes folks mixed into the fleet.

The other issue is as I said. It takes years to train MSE, CSE and Ops folks to become a truly OFP killick. And some of these trades we don't offer to NAVRes because of that.

I share your concern about unserious warships and their proliferation in our Navy. They are great to give certain trades sea time, and they can wave a flag. But that's about the end of their abilities.

If I had my way I'd trim out Ottawa a lot and send those PYs to form more units. I think our administrative system is too large and too complex and needs a massive reset.

An organization of 10s of thousands of people will generate massive amounts of admin. We need staff officers and NCM.

What administrative systems or areas would you adjust ?

I'm a firm believer in what Rumsfeld said about "the army you have." When things go to hell in a hand basket it will do so relatively quickly and there won't be time to buy equipment or ammunition or train folks. You need to build mass during peacetime but keep as much of it as you possible can on a stand-by with the reduced costs that come with ResF annual salaries and annual equipment wear and tear and maintenance. Not only does that peacetime mass give you a mobilizable force but it adds to a credible and effective deterrence.

If we go into WW3 nobody is going to care about salaries. And TBH if we want young folk to go die for old folk again then we should probably pay them pretty fucking good.

 

[McG]

Being able to place some Technical SME’s into positions that can be paid higher than a NCO band may pay, and be able to keep them in certain positions without them “outranking” or needing to be moved for promotions etc.

Your not describing a problem. What do we need to fix? What is broken that needs this solution?

 

[Remius]

If the reserve forces want to be more than what they are now they need to spear the change.

Then let them.

We've talk about this before.

You also said at one point that the Director of army reserve had a seat at the table. Laughable.

And I am big fan of the ARes. But they need to bring forward their own ideas for institutional change that will show the CAF that they want to be more than a private members bar that occasionally produces some augmenters.

Your post indicates quite the opposite tbh. Not really surprised as we’ve discussed all of this before. If that is what you think you are sorely misinformed.

Right now the ARes is being what it wants to be and the RegF Army is ok with that.

Horseshit.

IMHO The ARes needs to be its own catalyst for structural and institutional change.

then actually let them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Then let them.

You also said at one point that the Director of army reserve had a seat at the table. Laughable.

Your post indicates quite the opposite tbh. Not really surprised as we’ve discussed all of this before. If that is what you think you are sorely misinformed.

Horseshit.

then actually let them.

Brother, I don't hold to the keys to making institutional changes. This is discussion forum, have you seen the napkin shit we come up with ?

I think expecting big Army to come down from on high to solve all your problems is the wrong approach. I want to see the ARes lead the charge in redefining their role and position in the CAF. I have some ideas on how to move the maul down the field from the CSS side but I am not there, yet, to try and influence that.

 

[PrairieFella]

I think expecting big Army to come down from on high to solve all your problems is the wrong approach.

Big Army has to approve the plan first and aren't too keen on allowing experimentation. Hell, Divs frequently refuse overtrainingrequests for one level up. If a Reserve unit can't even be given the leash to try a lvl 3+ rather a lvl 3 range, how the heck are they supposed to make institution work better from the grassroots?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Big Army has to approve the plan first and aren't too keen on allowing experimentation.

I get that, every one has a CoC.

I think the ARes needs to first articulate, as a cohesive group, what they want to be and how it benefits big Army.

Perhaps the first step is creating a ARes HQ like NAVRes has. Just an idea, I know we have an aversion to added staff.

I know there is some side eye looks between the Reg and Res Army, but I have faith if an articulate and sensible plan is put for forth it would be given it's due.

 

[dapaterson]

Land Force Reserve Restructure, which did not restructure the land force reserve, left the A Res to its own devices.

The CAF needs to define the top level requirements; the Army need to translate those into full and part time capacity, and the structure needs to flow from that.

Not from seventy year old decisions that Crooked River SK should have an Artillery battery.

 

[PrairieFella]

I get that, every one has a CoC.

I think the ARes needs to first articulate, as a cohesive group, what they want to be and how it benefits big Army.

That's probably what's happening right now with the ongoing Army reform planning. We shall see what comes in September, but I honestly have little faith any major change will come to the ARes beyond blowing up some regiments and calling it a day. Until ordered to do so from CCA or CDS, the Regs will never willingly share the kit needed to make an effective ARes.

Perhaps the first step is creating a ARes HQ like NAVRes has. Just an idea, I know we have an aversion to added staff.

For those of us unfamiliar with how the navres works, care to elaborate?

I know there is some side eye looks between the Reg and Res Army, but I have faith if an articulate and sensible plan is put for forth it would be given it's due.

Here's to hoping. We'll see in Sept.

 

[PrairieFella]

Not sure where this fits so I'll throw it in here.

Almost two battalions worth of dudes on the march concurrently at St Jean. Fantastic to see.

LCol Kieley has done a fantastic job with CFLRS by the looks of it.

https://nitter.net/MarcKieley/status/1928428626233409659#m

 

[dapaterson]

Equipment shortages are not a Reg vs Res issue. I had a Reg F friend who commanded a battery, whose vehicle holdings were one times LSVW. The Res F has an undeserved victim complex.

And NAV Res is not a success...

 

[PrairieFella]

Equipment shortages are not a Reg vs Res issue. I had a Reg F friend who commanded a battery, whose vehicle holdings were one times LSVW. The Res F has an undeserved victim complex.

And NAV Res is not a success...

Cool anecdote. Still doesn't change the fact that we will never be able to treat the ARes any other way than an individual augmentee pool if Big Army doesn't force the Regs to share kit to allow the reservists do the job. At the end of the day, the higher ups want a useless reserve force that sends some dudes to Latvia and Kuwait. If they wanted otherwise, it would have happened already.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Land Force Reserve Restructure, which did not restructure the land force reserve, left the A Res to its own devices.

The CAF needs to define the top level requirements; the Army need to translate those into full and part time capacity, and the structure needs to flow from that.

Not from seventy year old decisions that Crooked River SK should have an Artillery battery.

Would you say, as a whole, the ARes is happy with its position and role in the CAF ?

I honestly, from my one year with them, got the feeling they were happy, but felt unsupported. And I think the later has more to do with 36 CBG not being in an Army centric environment, and I would like to influce change around that.

That's probably what's happening right now with the ongoing Army reform planning. We shall see what comes in September, but I honestly have little faith any major change will come to the ARes beyond blowing up some regiments and calling it a day. Until ordered to do so from CCA or CDS, the Regs will never willingly share the kit needed to make an effective ARes.

For those of us unfamiliar with how the navres works, care to elaborate?

Here's to hoping. We'll see in Sept.

NAVRes is a formation under CRCN like MARLANT and MARPAC.

NAVRes HQ is structured as any other HQ using the staff system from N2 - N8. And they provide FG for NAVRes folks to integrate into the full time RCN. I think a difference is that with NavRes we don't expect HMCS Donaconna to FE as an organized force. We use our stone frigates as recruiting and a feeder platforms to the fleet, east or west.

NAVRes also has its own centralized school. NAVRes NPTG. Naval Fleet School Quebec.

Perhaps that should be the aim of ARes. Not to FE as a fighting unit, but to FG and surge people into fighting units ?

You can find all this on the DWAN. If you're interested: https://rcn-mrc.mil.ca/en/navres/index.page?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Land Force Reserve Restructure, which did not restructure the land force reserve, left the A Res to its own devices.

The CAF needs to define the top level requirements; the Army need to translate those into full and part time capacity, and the structure needs to flow from that.

Not from seventy year old decisions that Crooked River SK should have an Artillery battery.

Yes. Please.

Alot of self-interested BS takes place, under the guise of 'mission command', in the absence of clear direction from the top. Without that you'll continue to see yet another series of short term, laughably tactical, tasks being dumped on the ARes from the senior Good Idea Fairies.

There's huge unrealized potential in the Reserves but it's being squandered through bad leadership that now looks like it's going to further enshrine a 'one CAF, two army' approach.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And NAV Res is not a success...

What is a success in your eyes ?