Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[suffolkowner]

That would certainly be something new for the CAF; integrating hockey into the PER recruiting system.

thats how my nephew joined the army, it didn't work out

 

[Remius]

Certainly agree on the under-exploited. Here in the BC Interior we have Junior, Junior A, Junior B hockey teams and CJFL: all with kids that are physically fit, have worked as part of a team so they should have that loyalty / teamwork / respect for coaches (i.e. officers and NCOs) that would make them great candidates for the CAF but, alas we never target them for recruiting and personally I feel that it is an opportunity lost

We did that sort of thing before. It wasn’t that successful. Most kids that age still think they have a shot at the NHL or what not and want to play hockey not join the military. Same with most sports at that level. Or they get better deals to play varsity sports in the US or Europe.

Not saying it couldn’t be tried again but it didn’t work that much from what I saw when we did. And we actually had a war on as well.

 

[QV]

2 years mandatory service immediately after high school for all. Earn credit towards post secondary, learn to be a #1 rifleman. You can decide to leave after 2, select people would get offers to stay and join the regs as ncm or officer stream to form the professional core. The period of service is treated with honour even after only 2 years. A culture of esprit de corps is society wide.

Everyone wins.

 

[Remius]

2 years mandatory service immediately after high school for all. Earn credit towards post secondary, learn to be a #1 rifleman. You can decide to leave after 2, select people would get offers to stay and join the regs as ncm or officer stream to form the professional core. The period of service is treated with honour even after only 2 years. A culture of esprit de corps is society wide.

Everyone wins.

Or tie in mandatory basic training following HS. July and august. 8 week BMQ. Those that show potential or want to could be invited to continue down a full time career path. Incorporate the recruiting process with that basic not to waste time. Those that don’t stay on beyond that initial basic would have the option to join the Territorials. Best case scenario is you create a more realistic selection process, worst case is you have a lot of people who get some form of military training that could be called upon if ever.

Problem though is cost.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Problem though is cost.

And the popularity of the proposal with the general population.

 

[daftandbarmy]

2 years mandatory service immediately after high school for all. Earn credit towards post secondary, learn to be a #1 rifleman. You can decide to leave after 2, select people would get offers to stay and join the regs as ncm or officer stream to form the professional core. The period of service is treated with honour even after only 2 years. A culture of esprit de corps is society wide.

Everyone wins.

The best way to teach someone to hate their country is to force them into compulsory military service when they're 18.

Or so conscripts from other countries have told me

 

[Kilted]

Caught an odd comment from MND Anand in an article at Global.



Have we been increasing defence spending since 2017? The wording seems odd.

There are troops at my unit that have gone out and bought their own civilian rucksacks, because they can't get issued them. Last year some were buying their own sleeping bags because they weren't issued them.

 

[Remius]

And the popularity of the proposal with the general population.

True lol

 

[GR66]

2 years mandatory service immediately after high school for all. Earn credit towards post secondary, learn to be a #1 rifleman. You can decide to leave after 2, select people would get offers to stay and join the regs as ncm or officer stream to form the professional core. The period of service is treated with honour even after only 2 years. A culture of esprit de corps is society wide.

Everyone wins.

So we've swung from disbanding the Army all together to compulsory military service? I think both are equally unrealistic (and undesirable).

Volunteer is definitely the way to go. Make the commitment just long enough to impart some useful skills but short enough that joining doesn't set you too far back in starting a different career if the Army isn't for you.

Maybe something like 6 months with a Reg Force Battalion for BMQ/DP1 and an exercise. Trained recruits then have a choice to compete for a full-time 1 or 2 year Reg Force contract position, or alternately serve one year on Class A service with a Reserve unit near their home.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So we've swung from disbanding the Army all together to compulsory military service? I think both are equally unrealistic (and undesirable).

Volunteer is definitely the way to go. Make the commitment just long enough to impart some useful skills but short enough that joining doesn't set you too far back in starting a different career if the Army isn't for you.

Maybe something like 6 months with a Reg Force Battalion for BMQ/DP1 and an exercise. Trained recruits then have a choice to compete for a full-time 1 or 2 year Reg Force contract position, or alternately serve one year on Class A service with a Reserve unit near their home.

I think you've just described something like SYEP, which was a big boost for the CAF at the time as I recall...

 

[suffolkowner]

mandatory service is unnecessary and undesired in my opinion but there are over 400,000 reaching military age yearly many of which could benefit personally as well as the country and the armed forces

 

[daftandbarmy]

mandatory service is unnecessary and undesired in my opinion but there are over 400,000 reaching military age yearly many of which could benefit personally as well as the country and the armed forces

It's a marketing opportunity, not a compulsory service solution.

We suck at sales, in general. It wouldn't take much to change that IMHO.

 

[QV]

The best way to teach someone to hate their country is to force them into compulsory military service when they're 18.

Or so conscripts from other countries have told me

Lots of countries do this to varying degrees:

Denmark
Israel
Sweden
Switzerland
Norway

I doubt the majorities in those places hate their country. To do this we‘d need the general population to see the necessity and have a basic understanding the world is not safe, and mature responsible politicians for bipartisan adoption. Since we have neither, it’s moot, and so is any real defence spending increase because $10 daycare is more important.

Or we could keep doing what we’re doing and expect different results I suppose.

 

[mariomike]

I think you've just described something like SYEP, which was a big boost for the CAF at the time as I recall...

They called it SSEP during my time in, but SYEP sounds pretty similar...

Joined the PRes when I was 16. Gave them three full summers as a student / reservist, before starting my full-time career.

After that, two weeks leave with pay every summer for PRes training.

Employees can take a leave of absence with pay, for the two week period of absence, to attend the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve Training Program.

 

[MilEME09]

Problem is training courses aren't two weeks, hell mine were 3 months, had to switch jobs many tines because employeers didn't like playing ball, and it's not worth filing a complaint

 

[FJAG]

I'll stick with my model:

1) Recruit during high school - put on ResF BTL;

2) full summer employment to take BMQ from day school ends to day university or community college starts - tailor course to fit the break;

3) pay tuition and fees for those taking specialty course we want (paramedics, mechanics, cooks, heavy truckers) in exchange for obligatory period of service. Minimal 1 weekend per month training to keep in touch and build habit of being there;

4) full summer employment for four month DP1 course;

5) repeat 3);

6) full summer employment for four month DP2 course;

7) repeat 3) and 6) until education completed (especially officers with 4 years university;

8) after education complete transfer from BTL to a RegF or ResF unit with an obligatory period of service commensurate with education supported (2-3 years)

9) ResF units have obligatory training restricted to 10 monthly weekends and a three week exercise - selected reservists could be given a 1 year Class B to fill particular roles e.g. vehicle tech to bulk out a ResF maintenance company with full-time tradesmen and gain civilian work experience;

10) At end of obligatory service offer signing bonus for those considered worth keeping for a further period of obligatory service.

End state - a ResF individual trained to Reg F standards from the get go and capable of immediate CT or augmentation to a RegF unit; a system capable of generating a constant, predictable stream of soldiers;

 

[FJAG]

Problem is training courses aren't two weeks, hell mine were 3 months, had to switch jobs many tines because employeers didn't like playing ball, and it's not worth filing a complaint

That's why one should concentrate on students, and train the hell out of them for the full summers when they are looking for work anyway.

In three summers and two academic years (five summers and four years for officers and certain others) you should be able to get them BMQ, DP1 and 2 trained in whatever trade. After that you go on a reduced cycle of obligatory training which caters for outside work and the family.

Get them while they're young and needing cash.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'll stick with my model:

1) Recruit during high school - put on ResF BTL;

2) full summer employment to take BMQ from day school ends to day university or community college starts - tailor course to fit the break;

3) pay tuition and fees for those taking specialty course we want (paramedics, mechanics, cooks, heavy truckers) in exchange for obligatory period of service. Minimal 1 weekend per month training to keep in touch and build habit of being there;

4) full summer employment for four month DP1 course;

5) repeat 3);

6) full summer employment for four month DP2 course;

7) repeat 3) and 6) until education completed (especially officers with 4 years university;

8) after education complete transfer from BTL to a RegF or ResF unit with an obligatory period of service commensurate with education supported (2-3 years)

9) ResF units have obligatory training restricted to 10 monthly weekends and a three week exercise - selected reservists could be given a 1 year Class B to fill particular roles e.g. vehicle tech to bulk out a ResF maintenance company with full-time tradesmen and gain civilian work experience;

10) At end of obligatory service offer signing bonus for those considered worth keeping for a further period of obligatory service.

End state - a ResF individual trained to Reg F standards from the get go and capable of immediate CT or augmentation to a RegF unit; a system capable of generating a constant, predictable stream of soldiers;

As per 2), you could offer a 'Gap Year' of military service, between Grade 12 and Uni, and probably get alot of interest. Especially if it comes with alot of travel as well as education credits, or whatever.

 

[TacticalTea]

I'll stick with my model:

1) Recruit during high school - put on ResF BTL;

2) full summer employment to take BMQ from day school ends to day university or community college starts - tailor course to fit the break;

3) pay tuition and fees for those taking specialty course we want (paramedics, mechanics, cooks, heavy truckers) in exchange for obligatory period of service. Minimal 1 weekend per month training to keep in touch and build habit of being there;

4) full summer employment for four month DP1 course;

5) repeat 3);

6) full summer employment for four month DP2 course;

7) repeat 3) and 6) until education completed (especially officers with 4 years university;

8) after education complete transfer from BTL to a RegF or ResF unit with an obligatory period of service commensurate with education supported (2-3 years)

9) ResF units have obligatory training restricted to 10 monthly weekends and a three week exercise - selected reservists could be given a 1 year Class B to fill particular roles e.g. vehicle tech to bulk out a ResF maintenance company with full-time tradesmen and gain civilian work experience;

10) At end of obligatory service offer signing bonus for those considered worth keeping for a further period of obligatory service.

End state - a ResF individual trained to Reg F standards from the get go and capable of immediate CT or augmentation to a RegF unit; a system capable of generating a constant, predictable stream of soldiers;

As long as your model doesn't involve 12-24 month long enrollment and transfer processes, just about anything can work...

My 2c...

 

[MilEME09]

That's why one should concentrate on students, and train the hell out of them for the full summers when they are looking for work anyway.

In three summers and two academic years (five summers and four years for officers and certain others) you should be able to get them BMQ, DP1 and 2 trained in whatever trade. After that you go on a reduced cycle of obligatory training which caters for outside work and the family.

Get them while they're young and needing cash.

I agree, where I see the opportunity is just like the army, most civilian jobs are busiest in the summer. Non student reservists could probably find an easier time to get time off Oct to March then they can May to Aug. Why not run a course or two in the winter catering to the other group?