Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Remius]

You’re asking for more than JT wants to give

I don’t care what he wants. I’m looking to Anand and Freyland. The actual adults in the room.

 

[FSTO]

I’d actually love to see them literally set up a separate, small table for Canada to sit by itself.

Make Canada sit with Iceland. No scratch that, at least Iceland has no illusions and would likely be insulted that they had the freeloaders of freeloaders foisted upon them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I watched the Prime Ministers address this morning about the Liberal-NDP tag team. It sounded like someone asked about reaching NATOs 2% GDP goal and the Prime Minister completely danced around it and didn't answer. I wonder why?

• New dental care program
• Universal national pharmacare program
• Measures aimed at affordability and housing costs i
• Early Learning and Child Care Act’;
• Proceed with policies and programs meant to target climate change;
• 10-day paid sick leave policy
• Invest more in Indigenous reconciliation including supporting residential school survivors;
• improving mail-in balloting and potentially allowing a three-day voting period.

With all the very expensive promises the LPC made the NDP for their support the money has to come from somewhere.

I have a feeling we might go with option "don't reach 2% GDP"

 

[Kirkhill]

I don’t care what he wants. I’m looking to Anand and Freyland. The actual adults in the room.

We can hope.

On the other hand, Joly and Trudeau (Edit: and Singh).

 

[dimsum]

I watched the Prime Ministers address this morning about the Liberal-NDP tag team. It sounded like someone asked about reaching NATOs 2% GDP goal and the Prime Minister completely danced around it and didn't answer. I wonder why?

• New dental care program
• Universal national pharmacare program
• Measures aimed at affordability and housing costs i
• Early Learning and Child Care Act’;
• Proceed with policies and programs meant to target climate change;
• 10-day paid sick leave policy
• Invest more in Indigenous reconciliation including supporting residential school survivors;
• improving mail-in balloting and potentially allowing a three-day voting period.

With all the very expensive promises the LPC made the NDP for their support the money has to come from somewhere.

I have a feeling we might go with option "don't reach 2% GDP"

I'll play slight Devil's Advocate:

If I weren't in the military, those top 3 things would make or break who I voted for. Hell, even with me being in the military, I think those are very important issues to tackle - maybe even beyond the defence budget.

If I were asked right now whether those top 3 things were more important than raising the DND budget, I'd probably agree. I'm sure that Joe Bloggins who has zero military connection would definitely agree.

Some in CAF Reddit have said (not incorrectly) that it's not just how much money, but how we spend the money we're given. If we're still wasting and/or giving back funds then what's the point of increasing funds? If procurement processes are still slow, and the same detractors for service in the CAF are still there, does it really matter if Canada goes up to 2% GDP or not?

 

[YZT580]

I'll play slight Devil's Advocate:

If I weren't in the military, those top 3 things would make or break who I voted for. Hell, even with me being in the military, I think those are very important issues to tackle - maybe even beyond the defence budget.

If I were asked right now whether those top 3 things were more important than raising the DND budget, I'd probably agree. I'm sure that Joe Bloggins who has zero military connection would definitely agree.

Some in CAF Reddit have said (not incorrectly) that it's not just how much money, but how we spend the money we're given. If we're still wasting and/or giving back funds then what's the point of increasing funds? If procurement processes are still slow, and the same detractors for service in the CAF are still there, does it really matter if Canada goes up to 2% GDP or not?

even without the add-ons, the NDP are definitely not pro military. My guess is an increase in budget with the purchasing kicking in after 2025

 

[Brad Sallows]

Given the shopping list negotiated to keep the government in office until 2025 and the likelihood that base interest rate increases are going to influence the cost of rolling over government debt, the likelihood of meaningful increased military spending making the cut is pretty small.

 

[McG]

Get NVGs for every combat arms troop ...

This is the way we do our shopping on the cheap, and it is why we will be in trouble if we get into a peer fight. Our A Ech, B Ech, and formation level support will get no night vision, a quarter of the required radios, antiquated trucks, and armoured vehicles fitted but not with weapon systems. Stop thinking in ways that give goodies for the F ech and nothing for the rest. If the service battalion cannot kill Spetsnaz at night, then Spetsnaz will kill service battalions at night. Radios, weapons, and night vision need to be pervasive through a field brigade and not exclusive goodies of combat arms.

 

[Remius]

This is the way we do our shopping on the cheap, and it is why we will be in trouble if we get into a peer fight. Our A Ech, B Ech, and formation level support will get no night vision, a quarter of the required radios, antiquated trucks, and armoured vehicles fitted but not with weapon systems. Stop thinking in ways that give goodies for the F ech and nothing for the rest. If the service battalion cannot kill Spetsnaz at night, then Spetsnaz will kill service battalions at night. Radios, weapons, and night vision need to be pervasive through a field brigade and not exclusive goodies of combat arms.

I only listed a few items off the cuff that would be easily purchased and acquired not the be all end all. Of course equip the rest. Equip the whole army with those things. I’m not advocating making this a combat arms only thing.

 

[OldSolduer]

This is the way we do our shopping on the cheap, and it is why we will be in trouble if we get into a peer fight. Our A Ech, B Ech, and formation level support will get no night vision, a quarter of the required radios, antiquated trucks, and armoured vehicles fitted but not with weapon systems. Stop thinking in ways that give goodies for the F ech and nothing for the rest. If the service battalion cannot kill Spetsnaz at night, then Spetsnaz will kill service battalions at night. Radios, weapons, and night vision need to be pervasive through a field brigade and not exclusive goodies of combat arms.

And the requisite training as well. And a mindset that says “we can do this “

 

[OldSolduer]

even without the add-ons, the NDP are definitely not pro military. My guess is an increase in budget with the purchasing kicking in after 2025

The NDP are nothing but Communists who aren’t in a hurry.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I watched the Prime Ministers address this morning about the Liberal-NDP tag team. It sounded like someone asked about reaching NATOs 2% GDP goal and the Prime Minister completely danced around it and didn't answer. I wonder why?

• New dental care program
• Universal national pharmacare program
• Measures aimed at affordability and housing costs i
• Early Learning and Child Care Act’;
• Proceed with policies and programs meant to target climate change;
• 10-day paid sick leave policy
• Invest more in Indigenous reconciliation including supporting residential school survivors;
• improving mail-in balloting and potentially allowing a three-day voting period.

With all the very expensive promises the LPC made the NDP for their support the money has to come from somewhere.

I have a feeling we might go with option "don't reach 2% GDP"

I think that this announcement will lead to a lot of finger pointing in Brussels. This might be a blessing in disguise.

Hard to claim empty pockets to your insurance company, when you're doing a multi-billion dollar home reno...

 

[McG]

I only listed a few items off the cuff that would be easily purchased and acquired not the be all end all. Of course equip the rest. Equip the whole army with those things. I’m not advocating making this a combat arms only thing.

Okay. In the army project world, if someone says “we’ll buy X for the infantry” then right from the start “for the infantry” becomes a constraint and the project scope will never be allowed to increase to address other users’ needs for X. Worse, the fact that we just bought X will become an argument against creating a second project to by X for other users who need it.

 

[TacticalTea]

I'll play slight Devil's Advocate:

If I weren't in the military, those top 3 things would make or break who I voted for. Hell, even with me being in the military, I think those are very important issues to tackle - maybe even beyond the defence budget.

If I were asked right now whether those top 3 things were more important than raising the DND budget, I'd probably agree. I'm sure that Joe Bloggins who has zero military connection would definitely agree.

Some in CAF Reddit have said (not incorrectly) that it's not just how much money, but how we spend the money we're given. If we're still wasting and/or giving back funds then what's the point of increasing funds? If procurement processes are still slow, and the same detractors for service in the CAF are still there, does it really matter if Canada goes up to 2% GDP or not?

Those are provincial issues. Even military matters notwithstanding, they'll be reason enough for me to vote out the government. We have a constitution, respect it.

The only one I'd tolerate is temporary federal intervention in housing, because there does seem to be a housing crisis. Just like I'd support federal intervention wrt to the opioids crisis.

The NDP are nothing but Communists who aren’t in a hurry.

It sounds harsh but it's true. You have anything deeper than a superficial conversation with the average NDP voter and the communism eventually shows its face.

 

[KevinB]

Okay. In the army project world, if someone says “we’ll buy X for the infantry” then right from the start “for the infantry” becomes a constraint and the project scope will never be allowed to increase to address other users’ needs for X. Worse, the fact that we just bought X will become an argument against creating a second project to by X for other users who need it.

BNVDFORGEN

 

[KevinB]

I watched the Prime Ministers address this morning about the Liberal-NDP tag team. It sounded like someone asked about reaching NATOs 2% GDP goal and the Prime Minister completely danced around it and didn't answer. I wonder why?

• New dental care program
• Universal national pharmacare program
• Measures aimed at affordability and housing costs i
• Early Learning and Child Care Act’;
• Proceed with policies and programs meant to target climate change;
• 10-day paid sick leave policy
• Invest more in Indigenous reconciliation including supporting residential school survivors;
• improving mail-in balloting and potentially allowing a three-day voting period.

With all the very expensive promises the LPC made the NDP for their support the money has to come from somewhere.

I have a feeling we might go with option "don't reach 2% GDP"

You forgot the last item - Russian Language classes...

Canada is building a wonderful glass house - when everyone else is picking up rocks.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'll play slight Devil's Advocate:

If I weren't in the military, those top 3 things would make or break who I voted for. Hell, even with me being in the military, I think those are very important issues to tackle - maybe even beyond the defence budget.

If I were asked right now whether those top 3 things were more important than raising the DND budget, I'd probably agree. I'm sure that Joe Bloggins who has zero military connection would definitely agree.

Some in CAF Reddit have said (not incorrectly) that it's not just how much money, but how we spend the money we're given. If we're still wasting and/or giving back funds then what's the point of increasing funds? If procurement processes are still slow, and the same detractors for service in the CAF are still there, does it really matter if Canada goes up to 2% GDP or not?

Cometely agree with everything you said.

What's happening in Ukraine is terrible, but not having $10 day care, a dental plan, and affordable housing is more terrible.

Hard to disagree when you brought up another great point. If we're already wasting money, giving back money, and shitting the procurement bed what will more money do?


All that to say the "time to get serious about defense" talk from the government is hollow.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So there's high confidence that dental services won't turn into walk-in clinics and wait lists, then?

 

[OldSolduer]

And to add Communists are those that are jealous of anyone who has anything valuable - except for their cronies - and want to rob you of it - legally of course while telling you it’s for your own good.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If the service battalion cannot kill Spetsnaz at night, then Spetsnaz will kill service battalions at night. Radios, weapons, and night vision need to be pervasive through a field brigade and not exclusive goodies of combat arms.

I still think CAF members should be issued personal weapons they retain throughout their career. Likewise in most cases with STANO.