Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[KevinB]

It’s a peculiar phenomenon that we have of wanting to replace our old equipment that we donated with the exact same old system and sort of complain when we can’t because industry and other forces have moved on.

The 84mm is a simple example where it should be easy to replace the entire active inventory with new M4s snd move the M3 and M2s to war stocks. If we can’t do that with a simple weapon system it doesn’t bode well for the more complex weapons.

It’s an unfortunate common place thing in a lot of Western Militaries.
In 2009/2010 the CA bought more SIMRAD night vision despite both inline clip ons being available, (and had been used for over a 15years previously in CANSOF) and the SIMRAD being obsolete by well over a decade

In 2014 the USMC and US Army bought tens of thousands more x4 ACOG sights despite the availability of 1-4x and 1-8x LPVO’s that had US NSN’s. Because heaven forbid one get new stuff that works better…

 

[Kirkhill]

It’s a peculiar phenomenon that we have of wanting to replace our old equipment that we donated with the exact same old system and sort of complain when we can’t because industry and other forces have moved on.

The 84mm is a simple example where it should be easy to replace the entire active inventory with new M4s snd move the M3 and M2s to war stocks. If we can’t do that with a simple weapon system it doesn’t bode well for the more complex weapons.

I am not sure how his outlook on the CG84 M4 meshes with these comments of his:

... Continuous Capability Sustainment is about moving away from the standard approach of starting a project every time you buy something. The rationale being, when you start a project, you do so because you’ve been asked to do something new. At no point has the government ever asked us to stop moving, shooting or communicating. Really, all we want to do is be able to keep up with technology in those three regards. It’s a bit of tweaking. That entails transferring money from a Capital account over to an In-Service Support account. You improve your equipment through cycles of faster iteration. As opposed to doing a big buy, a midlife upgrade, and then disposing of it in 30 years, you are doing incremental change every three to four years.

We know fundamentally that single-use military equipment becomes obsolete in about eight years because adversaries figure out how to defeat it. We want to move to a faster cycle, because that’s really the essence of the Western way of war – technological overmatch. We’re going to do that through technology injections that are a bit cheaper and don’t require the authority levels that we go through with full project management. This is a concept that was developed in close collaboration with Public Service and Procurement Canada and Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada.

CG84 M2-M3-M4
Iron sights, spotting scope, Aimpoint.
HEAT, HE, Smk, Ill, Tandem, HEDP, Canister, Guided, Confined Space....

What better example of continuous improvement and iterative development

 

[KevinB]

B

I am not sure how his outlook on the CG84 M4 meshes with these comments of his:



CG84 M2-M3-M4
Iron sights, spotting scope, Aimpoint.
HEAT, HE, Smk, Ill, Tandem, HEDP, Canister, Guided, Confined Space....

What better example of continuous improvement and iterative development

Thst Requires a modicum of effort though.

 

[Kirkhill]

B

Thst Requires a modicum of effort though.

Just like keeping the drive-way clear.

 

[CBH99]

No but we have - the CAF and GoC that is - have other more urgent priorities. Readiness is not one of them, nor is properly equipping the military.

Super cheap daycare for everybody's kids, and free dental care for kids too? Donating a ton of money to Ukraine to keep fighting a war we won't allow peace talks for?

Bah...I remember now...sole sourcing MASSIVE government contracts to charities that just so happen to employ my mom and brother. Duh!! (Silly me...one of those days)


Yeah, fuck that organization I keep committing to various missions around the world, and that I have to call every summer for help...who needs them? All they do is whine whine whine...

I said I'd buy them the best damn canoes in the market, and I will one day!!



...ungrateful sons of...

 

[RangerRay]

Super cheap daycare for everybody's kids, and free dental care for kids too? Donating a ton of money to Ukraine to keep fighting a war we won't allow peace talks for?

Don’t tell me you’re falling for that Russian propaganda crap. Kinda hard to have “peace talks” with a country bent on your destruction and submission as a people. The vast majority of that aid is going to American companies to pay American workers to buy new equipment for the US Armed Forces.

You’re better than this.

 

[dimsum]

Donating a ton of money to Ukraine to keep fighting a war we won't allow peace talks for?

That assumes that both parties want peace talks and will negotiate in good faith for them.

 

[quadrapiper]

Don’t tell me you’re falling for that Russian propaganda crap. Kinda hard to have “peace talks” with a country bent on your destruction and submission as a people. The vast majority of that aid is going to American companies to pay American workers to buy new equipment for the US Armed Forces.

You’re better than this.

And out of pure financial self interest... what's cheaper? Funding and equipping the Ukrainians or dealing with Czar Vlad taking more bites out of Western-aligned non-NATO countries with (likely) a viciously bloody insurgency and massive displaced population in Ukraine? Let alone the possibility Putin decides NATO countries can be nibbled at and triggers Article 5.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Sure, so the OP is correct.

I'd re-fund Class A bands before putting tampons in men's bathrooms. "This thing must be everywhere" is just another way of piling up impractical unnecessary costs. It's the kind of stupidity only those who play with other peoples' money without consequence can entertain.

You are getting stuck on something that won't even be a rounding error in the grand scheme of things, when our operating budgets were phantom cut this year and then getting kicked in the teeth going forwards, with a lot of 'process improvements' on the go that will delay capitol procurement of new equipment (costing more for the old stuff which we have less money to duct tape along) and other out right cuts.

I'd not too worried about a some shrub when someone is clear cutting the forest.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Snowbirds, Navy Gun Run, Ceremonial Guard... All count as defence expenditures.

Navy Gun Run doesn't exist anymore. And hasn't for what must be close to 10 years.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Navy Gun Run doesn't exist anymore. And hasn't for what must be close to 10 years.

They substituted it for a Rust Check Run

 

[Halifax Tar]

They substituted it for a Rust Check Run

I wonder if anyone has suggested undercoating the ships ? Or maybe some Gorilla Glue or Flex Seal ?

 

[Good2Golf]

I wonder if anyone has suggested undercoating the ships ? Or maybe some Gorilla Glue or Flex Seal ?

You joke….but….

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I wonder if anyone has suggested undercoating the ships ? Or maybe some Gorilla Glue or Flex Seal ?

Should use high temperature flu tape since they know they are going to have a fire every time they leave port now.

https://www.amazon.ca/3M-2113NA-High-Temperature-Flue-Silver/dp/B00004Z4DS/ref=asc_df_B00004Z4DS/?tag=googlemobshop-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292993790068&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11305112701905396884&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9104939&hvtargid=pla-313874637779&psc=1&mcid=a6c3ef7aca2c36949a632344ebe36c82#

 

[dapaterson]

Navy Gun Run doesn't exist anymore. And hasn't for what must be close to 10 years.

Ok, substitute the Halifax Tattoo (which encompasses Army and Navy).

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ok, substitute the Halifax Tattoo (which encompasses Army and Navy).

You know, I've never been to the tattoo... But I have a whack of them...

 

[Navy_Pete]

I wonder if anyone has suggested undercoating the ships ? Or maybe some Gorilla Glue or Flex Seal ?

You joke, but our paint coating scheme was holding out the ocean with a rust an insulation backing more than once, so I think it does a pretty good job!
The new anti-biofouling coating on top is doing great as well; some of the ships have a huge buildup of growth from not sailing for a while and it just sloughs off. The in water cleaning we recently did went a lot faster then we had thought it would as a result.

 

[FSTO]

Ok, substitute the Halifax Tattoo (which encompasses Army and Navy).

Its gone as well. This year was the last of MARLANT support.

 

[Fabius]

Almost all the army events and activities that could be seen as non operational have been cancelled almost permanently too. CAFSAC, Worthington Cup, Patrol Competition.

Interestingly items that have a nexus to support recruiting or retention are supposed to be considered for continued support but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I can’t help but wonder if pulling out of stuff like the Halifax Tattoo and canceling CAFSAC are actually going to be detrimental to recruiting and retention over the longer term.

 

[dimsum]

Almost all the army events and activities that could be seen as non operational have been cancelled almost permanently too. CAFSAC, Worthington Cup, Patrol Competition.

Interestingly items that have a nexus to support recruiting or retention are supposed to be considered for continued support but it doesn’t seem to be happening.

I can’t help but wonder if pulling out of stuff like the Halifax Tattoo and canceling CAFSAC are actually going to be detrimental to recruiting and retention over the longer term.

So…Reconstitution is happening?