• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....
 
My guess is the subs will die to buy more stuff from Canada and US production, unless you jump into AUKUS.

2% is the current floor, you guys are living in the parents basement.
I'm going out on the limb and saying that the subs go through, but, the numbers of F35's ordered goes up, (maybe another 36ish - "Oh, Mr. President, did you know that Canada has the 2nd biggest fleet of F35's after America of course"), the E-7's get confirmed, both in short order. Both of these cover off the Canada-US production checkbox.
Might even see an order for 150-160 Abrahams, so we have a full brigade.

That covers off - Ohio (red state) for the Abrahams, Texas for the F35 (red state) and unfortunately the E7s are out of Washington (blue state) but most go along way with the unionized workers of Boeing.

And Topshee gets his Corvette idea approved, at least on paper.
 
Last edited:
Might even see an order for 150-160 Abrahams, so we have a full brigade.
Fun with math time.

The American "Army 2030" Armored Div has two armored bdes and one Stryker brigade. That totals 10 tank coys (at 14 tanks each for a total of 156 tanks including the ones in the cavalry troops) and 17 rifle coys (8 Bradley and 9 Stryker)

We have 18 LAV Coys and 9 light companies and while only 3 tanks squadrons, there are another 6 recce sqns just waiting to be reclassified to tank. (Type 14 tank coys only have roughly 65 black hats so 9 Cdn squadrons could roughly make 10 tank coys)

Long story short - and ignoring @KevinB's usual observation that a LAV is not a Bradley - we have enough mech coys and enough black
hatters so that 150-160 M1s are enough to form a full armored division. Yes, yes, we'd need more for the school, and 36 155mm SPs but we already have the 18 M777s in an armored div arty bde has as well as engrs and air defence on the way. We even have an aviation brigade - sort of.

For bonus points: the above does not include the three light battalions which could be regrouped into one brigade and assigned to round out the 11th Airborne Div in Alaska.

So for some 160 tanks and 36 SPs we could cobble together a reasonable armoured division and a light brigade (not to mention JTF2 and the SOR) The Americans would understand that and approve of (especially if we eventually buy 120 Bradleys to replace the LAVs in the combined arms battalions.)

🍻
 
Army 2030 is getting a revamp. So I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the Strykers in the Armored Div’s surviving contact.
 
Shut up and take our money!

The level of pure, highly concentrated incompetence is absolutely mind boggling...just imagine this happening in the private sector...


Lady - "Hi, my name is so & so. I'm supposed to start work tomorrow for you guys, but I've actually had a change of heart and I can no longer accept the position...thank you though!"

Manager - "Hi, payroll? Yes this is Pat, can you go ahead and pay this lady all summer regardless of whether she signs into work or not? You can!? Great, thanks so much..."

Manager & Payroll Manager both - "We're still paying that applicant who changed her mind right before starting, right?"

"Yupp!"

"Excellent!"
 
Fun with math time.

The American "Army 2030" Armored Div has two armored bdes and one Stryker brigade. That totals 10 tank coys (at 14 tanks each for a total of 156 tanks including the ones in the cavalry troops) and 17 rifle coys (8 Bradley and 9 Stryker)

We have 18 LAV Coys and 9 light companies and while only 3 tanks squadrons, there are another 6 recce sqns just waiting to be reclassified to tank. (Type 14 tank coys only have roughly 65 black hats so 9 Cdn squadrons could roughly make 10 tank coys)

Long story short - and ignoring @KevinB's usual observation that a LAV is not a Bradley - we have enough mech coys and enough black
hatters so that 150-160 M1s are enough to form a full armored division. Yes, yes, we'd need more for the school, and 36 155mm SPs but we already have the 18 M777s in an armored div arty bde has as well as engrs and air defence on the way. We even have an aviation brigade - sort of.

For bonus points: the above does not include the three light battalions which could be regrouped into one brigade and assigned to round out the 11th Airborne Div in Alaska.

So for some 160 tanks and 36 SPs we could cobble together a reasonable armoured division and a light brigade (not to mention JTF2 and the SOR) The Americans would understand that and approve of (especially if we eventually buy 120 Bradleys to replace the LAVs in the combined arms battalions.)

🍻
Why not 200 M1's? Take 100 (and variants arrv etc) immediately "as is" to start the training/conversion and have the next 100 be sent for upgrades to the "M2 or M3" standard. When the upgraded ones start to arrive send the first batch for the same upgrades.
Ship all the Leos and their variants and parts to Ukraine who could do with them as they wish. Ignore Germany's whining.
Use the same formula for 200 Bradleys.
Raise your military spending and "buy American", 2 birds.
 
The level of pure, highly concentrated incompetence is absolutely mind boggling...just imagine this happening in the private sector...


Lady - "Hi, my name is so & so. I'm supposed to start work tomorrow for you guys, but I've actually had a change of heart and I can no longer accept the position...thank you though!"

Manager - "Hi, payroll? Yes this is Pat, can you go ahead and pay this lady all summer regardless of whether she signs into work or not? You can!? Great, thanks so much..."

Manager & Payroll Manager both - "We're still paying that applicant who changed her mind right before starting, right?"

"Yupp!"

"Excellent!"
it happens in the private sector dont kid yourself
 
Why not 200 M1's? Take 100 (and variants arrv etc) immediately "as is" to start the training/conversion and have the next 100 be sent for upgrades to the "M2 or M3" standard. When the upgraded ones start to arrive send the first batch for the same upgrades.
Ship all the Leos and their variants and parts to Ukraine who could do with them as they wish. Ignore Germany's whining.
Use the same formula for 200 Bradleys.
Raise your military spending and "buy American", 2 birds.

With just about an piece of Mil hardware if we aren't buying American there should be a bloody great reason.

Not that their kit is the best, but they have the best sustainment ability. And once your kit it is in use, its all about sustaining that use.
 
And notably, even during the first "decade of darkness" from 72-82 it was never as low as it has been since around 1995 onward.
I know folks think I’m joking, but a realistic assessment of the CAF needs would see a 5% GDP budget for 3-5 years focused on infrastructure and recapitalization, with a 2-2.5% being a maintenance number after that.

Due to the rust out issues from many fleets not being replaced until too late, you’re in a pretty bad spot.
 
Let’s all be very clear eyed about all of this. The current government and every other follow on government will lie, cheat, obscure, fudge and frig around the books but they will not go past 2% and I doubt they will actually even get that far.

And they will get away with it even with Trump and he will let them. They’ll figure out a way to give him some ego boosting win on another matter and lie to him about defence.

Edit: unless he hands the file to Vance, in which case even Melanie Joly will be reporting to the Armour School.
 
I know folks think I’m joking, but a realistic assessment of the CAF needs would see a 5% GDP budget for 3-5 years focused on infrastructure and recapitalization, with a 2-2.5% being a maintenance number after that.

Due to the rust out issues from many fleets not being replaced until too late, you’re in a pretty bad spot.
We have no desire or political will to do that. That is in part because we have been favouring butter over guns for half a century; in spite of the increasing cost of guns due to regular and defence industry inflation.

CPC or LPC, we're never spending that kind of dough unless the butter is threatened. I imagine tariffs will be more of a motivator than common sense....
 
Let’s all be very clear eyed about all of this. The current government and every other follow on government will lie, cheat, obscure, fudge and frig around the books but they will not go past 2% and I doubt they will actually even get that far.

And they will get away with it even with Trump and he will let them. They’ll figure out a way to give him some ego boosting win on another matter and lie to him about defence.

Edit: unless he hands the file to Vance, in which case even Melanie Joly will be reporting to the Armour School.
Mon Dieu, Madame Joly a zipperhead?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top