I'll believe it when I see it.
He's referring to South Korea, not Saskatchewan.So you are proposing training facilities in Saskatchewan? HMCS Unicorn would be an appropriate location.
First sub is built and stationed in SK. Crews fly over for training and SK provides support. Meanwhile in Canada, existing facilities here are adapted to support the new subs and maintainers are trained up. When the 2nd sub is launched, it replaces the first, which sails to Canada. Training is shifted to Canada and the 2nd sub spends a year on trials and workup. Then operational duties in the Western Pacific. Repeat as subs come on line.We don't have any training facilities for subs, so a lot of it would be in SK, but it was the delivery within 12 months part that I meant.
The RN had to pay a commercial SK yard to delay delivery of one of their supply ships because they needed time to get the crew ready, so not just an RCN thing. Getting ships is the relatively easy part, compared to training up and expanding to get extra sailors, maintenance facilities, maintainers, and the engineering/supply side, all of which depends on having large numbers of people. Unfortunately you can't put out and RFP and PO for 1000 sailors, and a few thousand support people.
Along these lines.First sub is built and stationed in SK. Crews fly over for training and SK provides support. Meanwhile in Canada, existing facilities here are adapted to support the new subs and maintainers are trained up. When the 2nd sub is launched, it replaces the first, which sails to Canada. Training is shifted to Canada and the 2nd sub spends a year on trials and workup. Then operational duties in the Western Pacific. Repeat as subs come on line.
Recruiting and retention will improve with addition of new subs. Along with all the other stuff we have talked about like housing, etc. Also accept reality that you can't keep the CFP going at the same rate and tie 1 up on each coast. You be able to get a few crew from there and the remaining CFP's get more crew as well.
For the love of god, stick with the South Korean weapon systems and go with their offer to set up production facilities here.
Along these lines.
1) SK provides us with subs
2) SK provides us with the K9
3) US provides us with the 88 F35 (scenario 1)
4) US provides us with 50ish F35 and France provides us with X# of Rafales (scenario 2)
5) US provides us with HIMARS
If you get into the K-9 for a SPG, I suspect Canada is eventually going to look for a tracked IFV, and tracked log vehicle etc6) GDLS provides us with X# of new LAV's
No one is buying a Challenger 37) US provides us with P8's
Wild Cards - unannounced -
8) New Corvettes - in house or offshore?
9) New tanks - SK/Sweden/UK?
Never happen.10 New AD - ?
11) New AT - ?
What's left that some European country could provide us/partner with us, in order for us to be 'allowed' into the Pan-European Rearmament Programme that is in the final stages of being rolled out? Besides some potential Rafale's from France under #4 above,
I don't see anything else that's been announced that could go the way of the Europeans, new tanks, AD, AT?
No unless you start looking at 3% GDP as a floor.Are those numbers large enough for us to talk our way into the Pan European Rearmament Program?
We only build SSN’s, but the mission systems in nearly every allied Sub is of US origin.I still see 3 major items above that may very well still come from the US - F35 and P8 are done deals, the unknown is how many F35's. The HIMARS is a wildcard, but it seems to be the 'best in class' option out there. Regarding the subs, we haven't in the least talked about any option ever coming from the US to fulfill this need.
I don't see a large 'pivot' away from US military procurement coming our way - unless we only commit to 2 squadrons of F35 and another 6 as trainers/spares, so that would cut our number from 88 to 42. If we don't go with the HIMARS in addition, would the 2 of those constitute a 'large pivot' away from US military procurement? We would be left with 42 F35's and the 14-16 P8's and the rest potentially primarily coming from the SK's.
Along these lines.
1) SK provides us with subs
2) SK provides us with the K9
3) US provides us with the 88 F35 (scenario 1)
4) US provides us with 50ish F35 and France provides us with X# of Rafales (scenario 2)
5) US provides us with HIMARS
6) GDLS provides us with X# of new LAV's
7) US provides us with P8's
Wild Cards - unannounced -
8) New Corvettes - in house or offshore?
9) New tanks - SK/Sweden/UK?
10 New AD - ?
11) New AT - ?
What's left that some European country could provide us/partner with us, in order for us to be 'allowed' into the Pan-European Rearmament Programme that is in the final stages of being rolled out? Besides some potential Rafale's from France under #4 above, I don't see anything else that's been announced that could go the way of the Europeans, new tanks, AD, AT? Are those numbers large enough for us to talk our way into the Pan European Rearmament Program?
I still see 3 major items above that may very well still come from the US - F35 and P8 are done deals, the unknown is how many F35's. The HIMARS is a wildcard, but it seems to be the 'best in class' option out there. Regarding the subs, we haven't in the least talked about any option ever coming from the US to fulfill this need.
I don't see a large 'pivot' away from US military procurement coming our way - unless we only commit to 2 squadrons of F35 and another 6 as trainers/spares, so that would cut our number from 88 to 42. If we don't go with the HIMARS in addition, would the 2 of those constitute a 'large pivot' away from US military procurement? We would be left with 42 F35's and the 14-16 P8's and the rest potentially primarily coming from the SK's.
We only build SSN’s, but the mission systems in nearly every allied Sub is of US origin.
It is impossible and colossally stupid to pivot away from America as a Defense supplier unless you want some pretty shabby stuff.
But you can at least try to make a lot more stuff domestically even if it’s grounded in US technology.
Already on their way. MQ9, Switchblade, etc. A bunch of GPUAS are coming too. Doesn't mean we have enough in the pipe but it's a start.I see a major hole in that list.
Low cost, ground/air-launched UAV/LAMs.
L3 Harris Red Wolf.
Anduril
Palantir
Leidos
Shield
Kratos
Thales - Belfast
Australia
Ukraine
Israel
Turkey
Not to mention our slate of enemies.
The cost per kill is dropping rapidly, especially when taking into account the logistics tails required.
Already on their way. MQ9, Switchblade, etc. A bunch of GPUAS are coming too. Doesn't mean we have enough in the pipe but it's a start.
There's one tied up on each coast essentially and I doubt if any will volunteer for submarines to be perfectly honest.First sub is built and stationed in SK. Crews fly over for training and SK provides support. Meanwhile in Canada, existing facilities here are adapted to support the new subs and maintainers are trained up. When the 2nd sub is launched, it replaces the first, which sails to Canada. Training is shifted to Canada and the 2nd sub spends a year on trials and workup. Then operational duties in the Western Pacific. Repeat as subs come on line.
Recruiting and retention will improve with addition of new subs. Along with all the other stuff we have talked about like housing, etc. Also accept reality that you can't keep the CFP going at the same rate and tie 1 up on each coast. You be able to get a few crew from there and the remaining CFP's get more crew as well.
For the love of god, stick with the South Korean weapon systems and go with their offer to set up production facilities here.
Curious - volunteer for the current Vic's or volunteer in a few years times for a potential SK sub?There's one tied up on each coast essentially and I doubt if any will volunteer for submarines to be perfectly honest.
Canada being Canada, we'll end up with their weird upgrade proposal that puts the Panther turret on the leopard hull. Why? cause its cheaper, and Canadian governments historically love cheaperCanada being Canada may just let the Leo’s you have self divest and return to the ALL LAV Army to me the SPG decisions will be telling.
I don't see us reducing the F35's or doing anything with the P8's - status quo on both of them.If you get into the K-9 for a SPG, I suspect Canada is eventually going to look for a tracked IFV, and tracked log vehicle etc
Either you throw in for the GDLS XM-30 submission, or you look at SK or BAE or RM. SK is my least favorite option, but more likely to let it be built in Canada.
No one is buying a Challenger 3
Options are realistically:
Abrams X / M1A3
KF-51
K-2
Maybe Leo2A8
Canada being Canada may just let the Leo’s you have self divest and return to the ALL LAV Army to me the SPG decisions will be telling.
Never happen.
You’d unnecessarily stress the RCAF for no realistic gain, and just a large net loss.
No unless you start looking at 3% GDP as a floor.
We only build SSN’s, but the mission systems in nearly every allied Sub is of US origin.
It is impossible and colossally stupid to pivot away from America as a Defense supplier unless you want some pretty shabby stuff.
But you can at least try to make a lot more stuff domestically even if it’s grounded in US technology.
We would get some, working with new advanced equipment, with new capabilities will be a draw for them. Would sure make recruiting new submariners a lot easier.There's one tied up on each coast essentially and I doubt if any will volunteer for submarines to be perfectly honest.
next step, ask the koreans to have a KSS-III do a visit to CFB esquimalt, then use that sub as the backdrop for the announcement of the contractWe would get some, working with new advanced equipment, with new capabilities will be a draw for them. Would sure make recruiting new submariners a lot easier.
People generally don't want to be on submarines. They may recruit new people who want the life but sailors generally already in the Navy usually don't volunteer. That may change of course when the decision to buy is made. If the Navy was smart they would build a recruiting program highlighting the extra benefits the submariners get, how new the equipment is and so forth and make it a perceived elite force. I would recommend recruiting out of Canada as well and try and attract other navies submariners. That would of course mean a signing bonus etc to truly attract more people.Curious - volunteer for the current Vic's or volunteer in a few years times for a potential SK sub?
Yes you would get a few, however I doubt if you will get the numbers you think are going to want to new equipment or not.We would get some, working with new advanced equipment, with new capabilities will be a draw for them. Would sure make recruiting new submariners a lot easier.
That may change if we do go with the KSS-III, it sounds like there is a lot of QOL features in the sub that make it more enjoyable to be on compared to the rest of the fleet, except maybe Astrix.People generally don't want to be on submarines. They may recruit new people who want the life but sailors generally already in the Navy usually don't volunteer. That may change of course when the decision to buy is made. If the Navy was smart they would build a recruiting program highlighting the extra benefits the submariners get, how new the equipment is and so forth and make it a perceived elite force. I would recommend recruiting out of Canada as well and try and attract other navies submariners. That would of course mean a signing bonus etc to truly attract more people.
I think new subs would enough to get some trained people to take the plunge (pun intended), particularly if there was a bonus attached to it. Fully agree recruiting will be far easier using the steps you outlined.People generally don't want to be on submarines. They may recruit new people who want the life but sailors generally already in the Navy usually don't volunteer. That may change of course when the decision to buy is made. If the Navy was smart they would build a recruiting program highlighting the extra benefits the submariners get, how new the equipment is and so forth and make it a perceived elite force. I would recommend recruiting out of Canada as well and try and attract other navies submariners. That would of course mean a signing bonus etc to truly attract more people.