Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[AmmoTech90]

The EFOGM is not a TOW variant and is significant larger in every dimension and in its cannister weighs over 100 lbs more than a TOW. It used a TOW launch motor, probably to save on development costs.

Please stop considering them interchangable.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ambulances need to be right forward with the troops they are supporting, surely?

CV90s? Then you need a CV90 ambulance/carrier.
LAVs? A LAV ambulance.
Trucks? A truck ambulance...

If the troops are foot borne then I would think foot borne medics and helicopters are likely the best bet.

The factors are protection and mobility, balanced against cost and complexity and fuel use.

Ambulances don't need to be uparmoured to survive accidentally becoming part of a direct fire fight. Forward of some arbitrary line, they ought to be armoured to survive damage from near misses by artillery and stray small arms rounds.

Ambulances don't need to be tracked. They don't need to accompany tanks, or tracked IFVs, moving tactically and fighting. They need to be able to pick their way forward to CCPs or other particular locations. The time factor is different; they have more of it.

As soon as possible/reasonable in the chain of evacuation, it's preferable to employ light vehicles with simple drive trains and frames (for patients not urgently needing life-saving or -supporting care). For a few terrain cases, those might still be tracked vehicles.

 

[Kirkhill]

The factors are protection and mobility, balanced against cost and complexity and fuel use.

Ambulances don't need to be uparmoured to survive accidentally becoming part of a direct fire fight. Forward of some arbitrary line, they ought to be armoured to survive damage from near misses by artillery and stray small arms rounds.

Ambulances don't need to be tracked. They don't need to accompany tanks, or tracked IFVs, moving tactically and fighting. They need to be able to pick their way forward to CCPs or other particular locations. The time factor is different; they have more of it.

As soon as possible/reasonable in the chain of evacuation, it's preferable to employ light vehicles with simple drive trains and frames (for patients not urgently needing life-saving or -supporting care). For a few terrain cases, those might still be tracked vehicles.

But logistically, wouldn't it be better if the ambulance accompanying CV90s were just another CV90? Just as our M113 units were accompanied by M113 ambulances?

 

[Kirkhill]

The EFOGM is not a TOW variant and is significant larger in every dimension and in its cannister weighs over 100 lbs more than a TOW. It used a TOW launch motor, probably to save on development costs.

Please stop considering them interchangable.

Thank you for the correction.

The source of my confusion

EFOGM Anti-Armour Missile Vehicle - Army Technology

EFOGM (designated YMGM-157B) is an enhanced fibre-optic guided missile manufactured by Raytheon Electronic Systems, Bedford, Massachusetts. EFOGM is primarily an…

www.army-technology.com

 

[Maxman1]

O

Of course it's a welfare agency , the Ross Rifle , Oliver load carrying equipment, the Bobcat , the Buffalo, the CF 5 . .....

 

[Brad Sallows]

But logistically, wouldn't it be better if the ambulance accompanying CV90s were just another CV90? Just as our M113 units were accompanied by M113 ambulances?

I understand the principle, but mainly apply it in respect of a platform being used army-wide for other roles instead of having a bespoke platform in tiny numbers for a couple of units. A CV-90 amb has only a couple of obvious employing units (armoured and tracked IFV), a lightly armoured tracked amb a few more, and a lightly armoured all-terrain wheeled amb a few more still. Nationally a single pool of the last makes more sense than 8 or 16 CV-90 ambs to support 1 or 2 armoured units, for example.

 

[Kirkhill]

I understand the principle, but mainly apply it in respect of a platform being used army-wide for other roles instead of having a bespoke platform in tiny numbers for a couple of units. A CV-90 amb has only a couple of obvious employing units (armoured and tracked IFV), a lightly armoured tracked amb a few more, and a lightly armoured all-terrain wheeled amb a few more still. Nationally a single pool of the last makes more sense than 8 or 16 CV-90 ambs to support 1 or 2 armoured units, for example.

Seen. On the other hand - define an ambulance. Is it a rolling theater or simply an APC for medics? If the latter then we are short of many carriers and could paint a few of them with targets Red Crosses. If the former then I agree with you entirely.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Seen. On the other hand - define an ambulance. Is it a rolling theater or simply an APC for medics? If the latter then we are short of many carriers and could paint a few of them with targets Red Crosses. If the former then I agree with you entirely.

The latter. What's in the box on the back isn't a big deal relative to the platform, except that with a simpler chassis it's easier to have the advantages of interchangeable boxes (eg. it's harder to do that with V-shaped hulls).

[Add: similar problem extends to all kinds of platforms. What should we have and how many? Canada has now run into the problem of wanting to spend less than needed - at best barely enough - to reasonably support some essential defence industries, while wanting to maintain and expand essential defence industries to lessen dependencies on other countries. Obviously larger fleets to equip some (dramatically reformed) Res F units and redundant (war) stocks, with accompanying rotation policies, would mitigate the latter at the expense of the former.]

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sea days are calculated based on 8hrs at sea including the day you leave and the day you return (even if those are partial days). But that only changes the amount of SDA you get.

SDA pay itself is based on your billet. Each billet is either sea going or not. If its a sea going billet you get SDA. So if you are unfit sea you can't usually get SDA because you can't be posted to one of those billets (there are some exceptions of course).

So CLDA is the only one that requires an overnight somewhere, the remainder is the same as LDA for us. Can you have a non sea going billet on a ship (not stone frigate)? LDA is either full unit gets it or not.

We also have Casual SDA.

Chapter 205 – Allowances for Officers and Non-Commissioned Members - Canada.ca

www.canada.ca

And no there are no positions in ships that don't go to sea with the ship. A big difference between ships and field units.

We certainly aren’t all on call to deploy for three weeks at a time all the time. That’s why we cycle through IRU. And guess which units do that? The one who receive LDA.

We, the Fleet, actually are always on call. We have a Ready Duty Ship that is first response; but all operational ships have to keep XX days of rations, spares and fuel for this reason.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Thank you for the correction.

The source of my confusion

EFOGM Anti-Armour Missile Vehicle - Army Technology

EFOGM (designated YMGM-157B) is an enhanced fibre-optic guided missile manufactured by Raytheon Electronic Systems, Bedford, Massachusetts. EFOGM is primarily an…

www.army-technology.com

Yep, there's not a lot of information out there on it, and as prototyping used some TOW components and the form factor is similar (although inflated), that's understandable. Looking through some of the online sources on EFOGM, there's some incorrect info out there.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yep, there's not a lot of information out there on it, and as prototyping used some TOW components and the form factor is similar (although inflated), that's understandable. Looking through some of the online sources on EFOGM, there's some incorrect info out there.

Has anyone tried swapping out the wire on TOW for fiber?

With today's technology is the EFOGM "inflation" necessary?

 

[PrairieFella]

The factors are protection and mobility, balanced against cost and complexity and fuel use.

Ambulances don't need to be uparmoured to survive accidentally becoming part of a direct fire fight. Forward of some arbitrary line, they ought to be armoured to survive damage from near misses by artillery and stray small arms rounds.

Ambulances don't need to be tracked. They don't need to accompany tanks, or tracked IFVs, moving tactically and fighting. They need to be able to pick their way forward to CCPs or other particular locations. The time factor is different; they have more of it.

As soon as possible/reasonable in the chain of evacuation, it's preferable to employ light vehicles with simple drive trains and frames (for patients not urgently needing life-saving or -supporting care). For a few terrain cases, those might still be tracked vehicles.

In our doctrine we do have ambs with the fighting troops, at least in the RCAC. The armoured ambulance is part of the SSM's (X9C) fast pack and is only a bound or two behind the main body on the advance. There is absolutely a role for a tracked amb in Canadian doctrine.

 

[Furniture]

You don't fix it by punishing the majority. The policy can change, 180 days is too long to wait to pull allowances for those folks. If you're going casual as a change, then it needs to reflect any time spent in the field or at sea, regardless of where you sleep. Working someone on a range till 0200 should be compensated (does RCN do day sails?), the "didn't sleep in the field/on ship" rule is stupid.

That's the kind of solution I'd rather see. It pays people extra for doing extra, not just because they have a message saying they belong to a specific UIC.

@Halifax Tar I'd rather see "casual" SDA/LDA made much higher, but only paid to people when they are doing extra, rather than the current system that incentivises hunting for a message to a unit for the bonuses.

Allowances should be paid for doing the thing... otherwise my old job(and many in Ottawa) should have been paid the TD allowance monthly based on the amount of travel the positions are expected to do.

 

[MrWhyt]

Has anyone tried swapping out the wire on TOW for fiber?

With today's technology is the EFOGM "inflation" necessary?

there is already a wireless TOW

 

[Furniture]

there is already a wireless TOW

Wouldn't it be a TO if it's not wire guided?

 

[dangerboy]

They changed the W to Wireless

 

[Cloud Cover]

And really, who wouldn't volunteer to have their nuts trained to be lengthy?

The posting for the train the trainer role should be interesting - Who wants to apply for the Nut Job? Yes there is a physical. Sense of humour required.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Not even that logical.

Start with 31 in Southern Ontario, move more or less east with increments of one through Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City, but then flip Moncton and Halifax from logical progression, then 38 in Winnipeg, 39 in Calgary, and wind up with 41 in Vancouver.

Clearly the chart and maps were turned upside down at the pub where this cunning plan was hatched.

 

[Kirkhill]

They changed the W to Wireless

So a fiber version would be a TOF(F)?

 

[Brad Sallows]

In our doctrine we do have ambs with the fighting troops, at least in the RCAC. The armoured ambulance is part of the SSM's (X9C) fast pack and is only a bound or two behind the main body on the advance. There is absolutely a role for a tracked amb in Canadian doctrine.

Agreed there's a role, but is there a necessity?

Are all the squadron A1 vehicles currently tracked, or do we make do with some wheeled LAVs? Or is "fast pack" (a new term to me) a special subset of the A1 that absolutely must be and is already tracked?