Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Seyek]

Might not be as bad as some might expect for the Coast Guard depending on how they approach it. If they leave it mostly as is, but add in an armed uniformed component to operate weapons, provide boarding parties/an armed enforcement capability you could still see a large portion remaining unarmed and largely status quo. Add in a bump in pay and benefits and most might end up okay with it.

If they try to tell everyone 'hey, you're all basically in the Navy now, tear up your union cards and go get fitted for your new uniforms' that would be a whole different story. Though I wonder how even if we moved the CCG under DND, would it still count as NATO spending if there aren't substantial changes to its role and capability?

 

[Rainbow1910]

Might not be as bad as some might expect for the Coast Guard depending on how they approach it. If they leave it mostly as is, but add in an armed uniformed component to operate weapons, provide boarding parties/an armed enforcement capability you could still see a large portion remaining unarmed and largely status quo. Add in a bump in pay and benefits and most might end up okay with it.

If they try to tell everyone 'hey, you're all basically in the Navy now, tear up your union cards and go get fitted for your new uniforms' that would be a whole different story. Though I wonder how even if we moved the CCG under DND, would it still count as NATO spending if there aren't substantial changes to its role and capability?

There is a substantial bit of culture within the CCG where they do not want to be overtly involved with armed enforcement and military matters as they view it as directly interfering with the search & rescue, icebreaking, navigational aid, communication, etc duties in the eyes of the public. Even what you describe above is going to be met with disdain and condemnation from many.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

There is a substantial bit of culture within the CCG where they do not want to be overtly involved with armed enforcement and military matters as they view it as directly interfering with the search & rescue, icebreaking, navigational aid, communication, etc duties in the eyes of the public. Even what you describe above is going to be met with disdain and condemnation from many.

Hey- maybe we can move SAR entire over to Coast Guard, since it will still be under DND?

 

[Brad Sallows]

There is a substantial bit of culture within the CCG

Therein, the problem. It's not a service club.

 

[Underway]

There will be some upset people on these forums if that's true.

People are mixing up the 15 billion to the budget rumour with the pay rumour. There will be a pay increase. The budget will increase by 9-15 billion. 5% increase in the defence budget per year until 2030 (not pay specifically).

Also I won't be upset at a pay increase. I just don't agree with the supposition that we're underpaid.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Looks like it is happening…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-canada-to-meet-two-per-cent-nato-1.7555928

The math on this is going to be very very interesting.

Basically they 'need' to spend something like 20$ billion more a year to get to 2%. Factor in the 2.5$ billion that the CCG spends, that's still another 17.5$ billion to be spent between NOW and March.

That's a crap ton of new drones (at between 100$ each to a few thousand), armored vehicles and new aircraft and a pay raise ( which even if that costs another 5$ billion/yr, still leaves 12.5$ billion left).

 

[Underway]

There is a substantial bit of culture within the CCG where they do not want to be overtly involved with armed enforcement and military matters as they view it as directly interfering with the search & rescue, icebreaking, navigational aid, communication, etc duties in the eyes of the public. Even what you describe above is going to be met with disdain and condemnation from many.

Working under DND doesn't mean working for the military. It means working for the department. It think this is a bit of a NATO calculation magic show. I don't expect the Coast Guard to change, they will just report to a different minister.

 

[GR66]

The math on this is going to be very very interesting.

Basically they 'need' to spend something like 20$ billion more a year to get to 2%. Factor in the 2.5$ billion that the CCG spends, that's still another 17.5$ billion to be spent between NOW and March.

That's a crap ton of new drones (at between 100$ each to a few thousand), armored vehicles and new aircraft and a pay raise ( which even if that costs another 5$ billion/yr, still leaves 12.5$ billion left).

NORAD modernization and BMD could quickly eat up $17.5 billion dollars.

 

[FSTO]

2 more Joint Support ships and investments in Esquimalt and Halifax infrastructure are easy wins.

 

[Remius]

The math on this is going to be very very interesting.

Basically they 'need' to spend something like 20$ billion more a year to get to 2%. Factor in the 2.5$ billion that the CCG spends, that's still another 17.5$ billion to be spent between NOW and March.

That's a crap ton of new drones (at between 100$ each to a few thousand), armored vehicles and new aircraft and a pay raise ( which even if that costs another 5$ billion/yr, still leaves 12.5$ billion left).

I’d love to see some infrastructure stuff thrown in there.

 

[Underway]

2 more Joint Support ships and investments in Esquimalt and Halifax infrastructure are easy wins.

There are a lot of easy wins. Properly fund the parts and ammo budgets for the various fleets and units is a starter. TD budget fixed. PP&S budget fixed. Just find a hole and fill it with cash (in the case of infrastructure that might actually be a litteral hole), give the people who work there the spending authority and it will go where it needs to.

 

[Czech_pivo]

NORAD modernization and BMD could quickly eat up $17.5 billion dollars.

I thought that the money for NORAD modernization has already been announced and accounted for?

As for BMD, yes, that would take a large pot of gold.

 

[Seyek]

The math on this is going to be very very interesting.

Basically they 'need' to spend something like 20$ billion more a year to get to 2%. Factor in the 2.5$ billion that the CCG spends, that's still another 17.5$ billion to be spent between NOW and March.

That's a crap ton of new drones (at between 100$ each to a few thousand), armored vehicles and new aircraft and a pay raise ( which even if that costs another 5$ billion/yr, still leaves 12.5$ billion left).

Yeah I really can't see being able to spend that much money, even if it gets allocated. There would be need to some substantial changes to enable it. I know I said I could think of lots of things, but I don't think we could process orders for 10,000s of thousands of NVGs, TWS, rucksacks, frag vests, plates, radios, mod tent, etc.. RP Ops certainly can't process the needed spending for maintenance and repair, and new construction is right out.

We're at what, about 90,000 personnel? If you bought every CAF member a new blue fleet truck from a quick google the Ford fleet super duty starts at $61, bring it up to $70,000 for some options and a cap and you're still only at like $6.3 billion.

EDIT: There are a ton of easy wins, there's decades of neglect and mismanagement to make up for. I just don't think even with the easy wins we have the capacity to process orders and the ability to sign off on all the purchases.

 

[Halifax Tar]

2 more Joint Support ships and investments in Esquimalt and Halifax infrastructure are easy wins.

We desperately need jetty and building expansion and maintenance. I'm sure we're not the only base that needs this.

 

[Kilted]

Might not be as bad as some might expect for the Coast Guard depending on how they approach it. If they leave it mostly as is, but add in an armed uniformed component to operate weapons, provide boarding parties/an armed enforcement capability you could still see a large portion remaining unarmed and largely status quo. Add in a bump in pay and benefits and most might end up okay with it.

If they try to tell everyone 'hey, you're all basically in the Navy now, tear up your union cards and go get fitted for your new uniforms' that would be a whole different story. Though I wonder how even if we moved the CCG under DND, would it still count as NATO spending if there aren't substantial changes to its role and capability?

By the way, you start BMQ on Monday.

 

[Czech_pivo]

We desperately need jetty and building expansion and maintenance. I'm sure we're not the only base that needs this.

True - I don't see how the existing infrastructure will be able to deal with an expanded fleet of 15 Rivers, 12 Corvettes (if/when they occur), the 12 subs (if/when they occur), 2/3 JSS and the 6 AOPS. Proper, long time accommodating all of them is not possible given what's available now.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Working under DND doesn't mean working for the military. It means working for the department. It think this is a bit of a NATO calculation magic show. I don't expect the Coast Guard to change, they will just report to a different minister.

Again if they don't plan on doing anything to change the CCG, why go through all of the effort to remove them from their more fitting place within DFO and plop them into DND? All of this to try and squeeze CCG under our defence spending expenditure? DFO is going to go ballistic over this change, given that they work the closest with the CCG, use their fleet constantly and partially amalgamated their own enforcement fleet into the larger CCG one many years ago.

 

[Czech_pivo]

By the way, you start BMQ on Monday.

Will be very interesting to see if the 6 AOPS in the RCN move over to the CCG after integration......

Will also be interesting to see if the 2 CCG AOPS get fitted with a deck gun, 50 cals and RCN radar.....

 

[Halifax Tar]

True - I don't see how the existing infrastructure will be able to deal with an expanded fleet of 15 Rivers, 12 Corvettes (if/when they occur), the 12 subs (if/when they occur), 2/3 JSS and the 6 AOPS. Proper, long time accommodating all of them is not possible given what's available now.

Hey we have the coast guard jetty now

But seriously, we need more jetties, and jetties that work would be nice too.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Will be very interesting to see if the 6 AOPS in the RCN move over to the CCG after integration......

Will also be interesting to see if the 2 CCG AOPS get fitted with a deck gun, 50 cals and RCN radar.....

CCG integration into the RCN would see a strike/work action that would make the Canada Post strike look like a joke in comparison, I can't really stress how much of a disaster that would be for the Canadian Govt.

CCG AOPS are also already designed to CCG standards and are missing all of the required RCN fixings and vice versa, it would be a bad idea and not make a lot of sense overall.