Halifax Rifles returned to Order of Battle?

[The Bread Guy]

From what I can gather from today's article in the papers, the Halifax Rifles are being re-established as a Yellowknife unit - not a NS unit... kinda goes against the usual habbit of maintaining City bearing unit names in their original stomoping grounds but... what da hey... 

I read it that way the first time through a Canadian Press story yesterday, too - you're not alone.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Irish Fusiliers (The Vancouver Regiment) were recently (in the last 10 years) amalgamated with the British Columbia Regiment (Duke of Connaught's Own Rifles), so I think that the Irish Fusiliers are now done forever.  Seems kinda odd that you'd take a PRes unit and have a long inactive SOR unit amalgamated with it, but that's what happened.  Supposedly there was some connection between a few CEF battalions in the First World War that became the British Columbia Regiment and the Irish Fusiliers.  This connection was what was used as the basis of reasoning to amalgamate the two units, however the purpose of carrying it out is beyond me.  Alot of members of the BCRs feel that the amalgamation was done solely to create a legacy for a few senior members of the regiment as to have done something noteworthy during their tenure, and to increase the roster of the regimental association and the coffers of the regimental fund by bringing in the remaining members of the Irish Fusiliers regimental association to the BCR fold.

Have you got a reference for this being a formal amalgamation?

 

[dapaterson]

Have you got a reference for this being a formal amalgamation?

The formal document would be the Ministerial Organizational Order for the BCD, which would contain that level of detail.  There's a certain degree of friction between DHH (holders of the Supp Order of Battle) and the VCDS O&E staff on issues like this (and likely will be on the Halifax Rifles as well).

 

[R933ex]

As a Yellowknifer I am thrilled at the prospect for a unit up here. Currently with no PRL and with 440 being the only Primary Reserve unit, those that want to parade don't really have the opportunity. And currently there is quite a few retired infanteers who probably would be prepared to join an infantry reserve unit up here. I don't think you would ever see a functioning infantry company but a reinforced platoon......

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Arctic army reserve to be based in Yellowknife, MacKay says
Last Updated: Friday, September 5, 2008 | 4:21 PM CT
The Canadian Press
The military will establish a permanent army reserve in Canada's North as part of Ottawa's effort to protect Arctic sovereignty, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Friday.

Although MacKay released few details during an announcement at a military trade show in Halifax, he said the unit would be established in Yellowknife.

The complement would likely consist of 100 soldiers over time, depending upon need, MacKay said.

He added the unit could be used to augment other proposed initiatives in neighbouring Nunavut, including a deepwater port at the former Nanisivik mine site and a military training centre in Resolute.

"This reserve unit covers an enormous amount of land mass and they will also work closely with the Canadian Arctic Rangers," said MacKay.

The Rangers are a largely aboriginal group of reservists considered the military's eyes and ears in the North. They are primarily used for sovereignty patrols and are known for their ability to operate in harsh Arctic conditions.

Arctic expert wary of pre-election promises
The announcement came in advance of an expected election campaign in which the Arctic is likely to be an important issue in the Conservative platform.

And it follows last week's Arctic tour by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, during which he announced that all foreign vessels travelling in Canada's disputed northern waters would have to register with the coast guard.

It's against that backdrop that the newest initiative has to be measured, according to Rob Huebert, associate director for the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

"I'm always very suspicious of announcements made in an election or an immediate pre-election, particularly when it comes to the North," said Huebert.

"Having said that, this government has actually taken important steps on the Arctic, so perhaps this will be in fact different."

Huebert points out that if nothing else, the symbolism is important for Canada's territories, which have gone without the traditional military reserve units that operate in all 10 provinces.

He said if a unit is established, it will give the military an important link to the community at large and provide northerners with the opportunity to serve at home.

"I think it's also an important signal to the international community that we are continuing to get more and more serious about what we do in the Arctic," Huebert said.

Forces struggling in 'war for talent'
But the good intentions could be derailed by recruiting problems that have hit the military because of retirements and poaching by the private sector.

The problem is so acute it prompted Rick Hillier, the former chief of defence staff, to remark in May that the Canadian Forces is in a domestic "war for talent."

MacKay also announced that one of Canada's oldest reserve units would be returned to active duty for the first time since being stood down in 1965.

The Halifax Rifles will begin recruiting up to 100 members and will likely be used in a reconnaissance or light infantry role.

But filling out the unit will be a challenge, admitted Brig.-Gen. Dave Neasmith, area commander for Land Forces Atlantic.

"Both industry here as well as the Canadian Forces and all the other units are going to be competing for the same quality folks ... and that's why it's going to take a little time to actually stand up the unit," said Neasmith.

MacKay admitted the challenge in Canada's northern regions would likely be complicated by a sparse population spread over vast, rugged geography.

He said that might mean bolstering the Yellowknife unit by a rotation of soldiers from other parts of Canada.

© The Canadian Press, 2008


Former cavalry unit reactivated after 4 decades
Last Updated: Friday, September 5, 2008 | 3:11 PM AT
CBC News
Canada's defence minister has reactivated a Halifax-based military reserve unit that was disbanded four decades ago, creating up to 100 part-time jobs.

The Halifax Rifles were founded in 1860 as a cavalry unit, serving in both world wars and Korea. The unit has been inactive since 1965.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Friday the Rifles have a distinguished history and will serve Canada well.

Brig.-Gen. Dave Neasmith said the modern version of the unit will carry out either infantry or armoured duty, but it will take time to get it up to full strength.

"About 100 folks is typically the size of a squadron in a former armoury unit, so that's basically what I'm looking at," Neasmith said in Halifax.

It will "probably take us three, four years in order to get everything up the way we like — to get them the equipment, to get them some infrastructure — so it's not something that happens overnight."

Richard Hurlburt, Nova Scotia's minister responsible for military relations, welcomed the announcement, noting it will provide part-time work for up to 100 people.

Two prime ministers, Charles Tupper and Robert Borden, were members of the Halifax Rifles. The unit's motto is "Yield to None."

 

[TN2IC]

I"m pretty sure Halifax Rifles is a cadet corps at the local Armories. Please correct me if I"m wrong, it's been a bit.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Have you got a reference for this being a formal amalgamation?

Found this website

http://www.irishpipesanddrums.com/
This band claims the lineage of the pipes and drums of the Irish Fusiliers of Canada and attributes its revival to the amalgamation.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Even though it may sound like it, I'm not insulting the reserves here but,

Mr. McKay,
If you aren't announcing a fully trained, fully kitted, fully staffed, fully deployable, full time unit then you are full of.......

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Given the track record of the last couple pre-election defence spending/initiative promises by the MND, I think we'll be seeing the Halifax Rifles return to the reserve order of battle and a reserve unit in Yellowknife happen as soon as we have the Airborne Battalion in Trenton, the Marine Commando Regiment in Comox, and the Arctic QRF battalion in Goose Bay... :

 

[aesop081]

with 440 being the only Primary Reserve unit,

When did 440 Sqn become a reserve unit ?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

When did 440 Sqn become a reserve unit ?

The Squadron is comprised of approximately 35 aircrew and technicians who are a mixture of Regular Force and Reserve Force members.

 

[aesop081]

The Squadron is comprised of approximately 35 aircrew and technicians who are a mixture of Regular Force and Reserve Force members.

Just like every other Sqn in the Air Force.........

 

[Matt_Fisher]

The Squadron is comprised of approximately 35 aircrew and technicians who are a mixture of Regular Force and Reserve Force members.

Lets not forget though that most of our AF reservists are class B/C and are not likely to be recruited from the local community in the case of 440 Sqn.  I'd be surprised if there are any Class A reserve positions in that unit (or at least Class A members who were recruited locally).

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Lets not forget though that most of our AF reservists are class B/C and are not likely to be recruited from the local community in the case of 440 Sqn.  I'd be surprised if there are any Class A reserve positions in that unit (or at least Class A members who were recruited locally).

Think they are more likely to be either Class B or Class B/A Matt vice Class C

 

[Harris]

This is something that the Halifax Rifles have been fighting a long time for.  Can't see them being an infantry unit - not much use having 2 of them in Halifax. More likely Recon.

The recruiting base is a good point.  You already have Air Reserve in Shearwater, Stone Frigate at the Dockyards, Service Bn, Med Pl, Arty, Pl Fus, Int Coy, Band, Comms, Brigade and Area HQ. Don't think I missed anyone.

In addition there are PSYOPS, CIMIC, (As part of the Information Operations Unit with 3 Int) and the MPs in Sackville.

 

[George Wallace]

In addition there are PSYOPS, CIMIC, and the MPs in Sackville.

I understand that the different Areas are increasing their PSYOPS and CIMIC posns, as well as HUMINT.  As these people can be any Trade, I am sure that these are just a bit of juggling in the books, with these people filling the various roles, but still keeping their Regimental/Branch affiliations and posns.

 

[R933ex]

Think they are more likely to be either Class B or Class B/A Matt vice Class C

Actually untill recently almost all reservists in the squadron were local hires. Now the flight is all but dismantled, but there are a few hold overs.

 

[Harris]

I understand that the different Areas are increasing their PSYOPS and CIMIC posns, as well as HUMINT.   As these people can be any Trade, I am sure that these are just a bit of juggling in the books, with these people filling the various roles, but still keeping their Regimental/Branch affiliations and posns.

Talking of PSYOPS, while any trade is welcome, the Tactical PSYOPS teams require Cbt Arms folks.  Everyone does keep their Regimental affiliations, and are expected to train with their home Units whenever possible.  They are transferred to the Information Operations Unit however, and then attach posted back to their "home" units for administration.

BUT...a soldier can only wear so many hats, and there are only so many people willing to be in the Military regardless of trade.  Adding another Unit to Halifax is stretching the realm of the possible IMO.

 

[George Wallace]

Talking of PSYOPS, while any trade is welcome, the Tactical PSYOPS teams require Cbt Arms folks.  Everyone does keep their Regimental affiliations, and are expected to train with their home Units whenever possible.  They are transferred to the Information Operations Unit however, and then attach posted back to their "home" units for administration.

BUT...a soldier can only wear so many hats, and there are only so many people willing to be in the Military regardless of trade.  Adding another Unit to Halifax is stretching the realm of the possible IMO.

How many hats do CF Pers wear now?  Actually the whole Civil Service.  "You are doing the work of two to ten.  Keep up the good work."  It is a neat way to create Company size organizations and the Zero man them, attaching trained people in, only to deploy them, and then sending them back to their Parent Units.  It takes the "Double Hat" phrase to the next level.  ;D

 

[geo]

Well, OK... guess the press realease was sketchy enough - combining two items in the one... my bad interpretation.

OK WRT to Halifax... how is the strength of the local units at present ???
1 RCA
3 Int Coy
3 MPU
33 Svc Bn
723 Comm Sqn
PLF
To me it makes no sense at all to start up a new unit if existing ones don't have the legs to stand un...
That being said, there appears to be an "armoured" or light RECCE & Engineer capacity mising from the NS mix....
But you gotta have bodies on the ground to make the darned thing work.... do we have em ?