Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[dapaterson]

EDIT: Thanks @KevinB for pointing out this has already been labelled as false.

Early reports are usually wrong. Haven't been able to find any other sources reporting this, only sources quoting (with or without attribution). That caveat out of the way, report of an attack on Dinoma, the Israeli nuclear site.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1711122710275793096

 

[KevinB]

Early reports are usually wrong. Haven't been able to find any other sources reporting this, only sources quoting (with or without attribution). That caveat out of the way, report of an attack on Dinoma, the Israeli nuclear site.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1711122710275793096

Already been labeled as false.

Tyler R gives pretty good synopsis of the events.

Israel Declares State Of War, U.S. Navy Carrier Group Redirected

The day after Hamas's surprise attack, warships are being repositioned, a ground assault is being readied, and fears of a wider conflict grow.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Palestine was a legal country administered by Britain pre 1948.

View attachment 80547View attachment 80548
And the intention of the UN
View attachment 80549

Prior to that all of them were provinces of the Ottoman Empire of the Turks. A fact that pleased the Arabs, Persians, Jews, Greeks and Slavs of the Balkans to no end.

 

[Kirkhill]

Anybody seen any videos of formations of paragliders? All I have seen are singletons.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Anybody seen any videos of formations of paragliders? All I have seen are singletons.

There is some video of a music festival where you can see what's looks to be the paragliders coming down...

 

[Brad Sallows]

Paragliders are how the backflipping hatchet throwers are usually inserted.

 

[Czech_pivo]

A news piece about what happened at the rave party - talk of 260 killed here alone.

Eyewitness Accounts of the Israeli Music Festival Massacre

One survivor who'd returned to the scene later in the day to look for his friends spoke, in a breaking voice, of what he'd seen. Of the bodies, mainly of young women, lying cold and mutilated. Of scantily clad corpses, many of whom appeared to have been shot at point blank. Of cars, perforated...

www.tabletmag.com

 

[Blackadder1916]

not really. Didn't all of them come about after the breakup of the Ottoman empire following WW1?

You seem to equate the legitimacy of a country (or region) with it's name and "overlord". While "Palestine" may have been under the Ottoman Empire, it was still Palestine (in name and actuality) and the inhabitants of the region were Palestinians. Were the inhabitants of Canada (or at least those of European descent) not Canadians prior to 1 July 1867 despite being a colony of Great Britain?

From The Globe 10 Dec 1866, a short column titled "MAKING FUN OF THE AMERICAN COLONY IN PALESTINE".

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/making-fun-american-colony-palestine/docview/1518918101/se-2

There are numerous other stories referring to events happening in "Palestine" from the 1860s to 1900 such as this piece referring to the question of Jewish immigration to Palestine from the 23 June 1882 issue.

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/canada-england/docview/1532111333/se-2

 

[TacticalTea]

Impressive strikes from today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/173804z

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1735gba

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1733uj8

 

[dapaterson]

Hmm...

Trump’s boasting about some of Israel’s most sensitive information to the Russians could damage the relationship between the two countries and raises the possibility that the information could be passed to Iran, Russia’s close ally and Israel’s main threat in the region.

Israel Said to Be Source of Secret Intelligence Trump Gave to Russians (Published 2017)

The revelation adds a potential diplomatic complication to an episode that has renewed questions about how the White House handles sensitive intelligence.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Kilted]

That still gives you a 30 year time frame. After ww1 to 1948

I used the word sovereign.

 

[childs56]

I’m hoping every Western Nation observed the folks in their countries cheering for Hamas.
I’d be deporting those back ASAP.

Then start targeted killing of the leadership of nations that support Hamas and their military infrastructure.

I hope those people are not or do not turn into sleeper cells and start attacks on our home soil.

 

[Kirkhill]

You seem to equate the legitimacy of a country (or region) with it's name and "overlord". While "Palestine" may have been under the Ottoman Empire, it was still Palestine (in name and actuality) and the inhabitants of the region were Palestinians. Were the inhabitants of Canada (or at least those of European descent) not Canadians prior to 1 July 1867 despite being a colony of Great Britain?

From The Globe 10 Dec 1866, a short column titled "MAKING FUN OF THE AMERICAN COLONY IN PALESTINE".

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/making-fun-american-colony-palestine/docview/1518918101/se-2

There are numerous other stories referring to events happening in "Palestine" from the 1860s to 1900 such as this piece referring to the question of Jewish immigration to Palestine from the 23 June 1882 issue.

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/canada-england/docview/1532111333/se-2

View attachment 80557

Anybody reading their bible in that era would have referred to the geographical entity around Jerusalem, Jericho, Nazareth and Bethlehem as Palestine and referenced Pilate's Romans.

Israel was and is the nation of Israel, the people who trace themselves to Abraham.

In 1947 the Brits were still referring to their League of Nations Mandate as Palestine. They didn't recognize Israel until 1949.

 

[OldSolduer]

I feel like a Life of Brian GIF is required....

 

[daftandbarmy]

Copycat killings in Egypt, apparently...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1711008453966074271

 

[YZT580]

You seem to equate the legitimacy of a country (or region) with it's name and "overlord". While "Palestine" may have been under the Ottoman Empire, it was still Palestine (in name and actuality) and the inhabitants of the region were Palestinians. Were the inhabitants of Canada (or at least those of European descent) not Canadians prior to 1 July 1867 despite being a colony of Great Britain?

From The Globe 10 Dec 1866, a short column titled "MAKING FUN OF THE AMERICAN COLONY IN PALESTINE".

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/making-fun-american-colony-palestine/docview/1518918101/se-2

There are numerous other stories referring to events happening in "Palestine" from the 1860s to 1900 such as this piece referring to the question of Jewish immigration to Palestine from the 23 June 1882 issue.

https://www.proquest.com/historical-newspapers/canada-england/docview/1532111333/se-2

View attachment 80557

Palestine was a geographical area true but it hasn't ever been a nation. After the Romans scattered the Jewish remnants after their attempted rebellion they ruled until the empire fell apart. By that time Israel was a mix of Christian and Jew. Islam set out to conquer and did, ruling over the Palestinian area until Balfour divided the entire area for administration between England and France. Each province may have had a name but they never had independence. End of the nineteenth century saw the start of the Jewish return. The land they settled on they bought. The owners considered it worthless. History seems to indicate that most of the locals were nomads with few actually owning the land upon which they grazed their herds. The article you have pasted states that the land was owned by the Sultan so no Palestinian ownership.

 

[KevinB]

Palestine was a geographical area true but it hasn't ever been a nation.

I suspect that many who were born there would disagree.

After the Romans scattered the Jewish remnants after their attempted rebellion they ruled until the empire fell apart. By that time Israel was a mix of Christian and Jew. Islam set out to conquer and did, ruling over the Palestinian area until Balfour divided the entire area for administration between England and France. Each province may have had a name but they never had independence. End of the nineteenth century saw the start of the Jewish return. The land they settled on they bought. The owners considered it worthless. History seems to indicate that most of the locals were nomads with few actually owning the land upon which they grazed their herds. The article you have pasted states that the land was owned by the Sultan so no Palestinian ownership.

The argument who owns what lands are as old as time.
Also when you get down to it, ownership is a relatively confused term as well.

 

[Portnord]

Palestine was a geographical area true but it hasn't ever been a nation. After the Romans scattered the Jewish remnants after their attempted rebellion they ruled until the empire fell apart. By that time Israel was a mix of Christian and Jew. Islam set out to conquer and did, ruling over the Palestinian area until Balfour divided the entire area for administration between England and France. Each province may have had a name but they never had independence. End of the nineteenth century saw the start of the Jewish return. The land they settled on they bought. The owners considered it worthless. History seems to indicate that most of the locals were nomads with few actually owning the land upon which they grazed their herds. The article you have pasted states that the land was owned by the Sultan so no Palestinian ownership.

You're way off track if you are looking for historical precedents for any candidates for a modern state in that space. The ancient, united, and independent kingdom of Israel lasted only slightly over 100 years three millennia ago. For comparison, the crusader kingdom was there for almost 200 years (edit: in two incarnations, doesn't change the point really) and relatively recently (a measly eight centuries). The small kingdoms in that area have almost always been border march vassals to larger empires.

This isn't to argue for or against the existence of any particular political entity... my point is digging into antiquity is just an emotional appeal that I've seen repeatedly used to disqualify entire populations from any right to live where they are. The people that are there now, not the long dead tribes that were first or longest or loudest or biggest, are the ones that need some kind of normal living conditions. Split the region into 20 brand new statelets named for Naruto characters and it would be a vast improvement over the current state of affairs if they provided good governance and security to both their people and their neighbours.

 

[Furniture]

You're way off track if you are looking for historical precedents for any candidates for a modern state in that space. The ancient, united, and independent kingdom of Israel lasted only slightly over 100 years three millennia ago. For comparison, the crusader kingdom was there for almost 200 years (edit: in two incarnations, doesn't change the point really) and relatively recently (a measly eight centuries). The small kingdoms in that area have almost always been border march vassals to larger empires.

This isn't to argue for or against the existence of any particular political entity... my point is digging into antiquity is just an emotional appeal that I've seen repeatedly used to disqualify entire populations from any right to live where they are. The people that are there now, not the long dead tribes that were first or longest or loudest or biggest, are the ones that need some kind of normal living conditions. Split the region into 20 brand new statelets named for Naruto characters and it would be a vast improvement over the current state of affairs if they provided good governance and security to both their people and their neighbours.

So what you're saying is the Italians should take control again, and give us a few hundred years of peace?

 

[gryphonv]

Palestine was a geographical area true but it hasn't ever been a nation. After the Romans scattered the Jewish remnants after their attempted rebellion they ruled until the empire fell apart. By that time Israel was a mix of Christian and Jew. Islam set out to conquer and did, ruling over the Palestinian area until Balfour divided the entire area for administration between England and France. Each province may have had a name but they never had independence. End of the nineteenth century saw the start of the Jewish return. The land they settled on they bought. The owners considered it worthless. History seems to indicate that most of the locals were nomads with few actually owning the land upon which they grazed their herds. The article you have pasted states that the land was owned by the Sultan so no Palestinian ownership.

I'm sorry but it feels like you are moving goal posts.

You did say 'There was no such thing as a Palestine then.' But now are adding conditions to that definition.

When others have shown that Palestine has existed in some shape or form for a very long time. It may not fit your definition or someone else's as a nation or sovereign but the name has been associated with a geographic location for a very long time.

I don't have a horse in this race. But it just goes to show how this area has a very convoluted and muddy history over the centuries.