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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
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A few relevant developments/news that I don't believe have been shared here:

1- The largest Israeli illegal land grab in decades was just made public last week.
Zionist land theft is basically the root cause of this catastrophe in Palestine dating back to 1948 and before.
European Zionist colonizers knew well from the start that you can't create a Jewish majority state in an Arab majority land without ethnically cleansing and transferring the indigenous Palestinian population.

2- From a highly respected British Medical journal (The Lancet), they're indicating that it is not implausible that the total number of deaths attributable to Israel's war in Gaza to reach 186,000 or more! We're basically witnessing the genocide of our generation.

They applied a Conservative estimate of 4 indirect deaths per 1 direct death (since based on recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from 3 to 15 times the number of direct deaths):

3- As most pro-Palestinian sources have been saying from the beginning, it is now confirmed from Israeli sources that Israel employed their infamous Hannibal Directive on Oct 7 (to kill their own citizens to prevent them from being abducted to Gaza).
Tbh, this shouldn't be surprising since a few weeks (or days) after October 7 Israel reduced their casualty figure by over 200 overnight (about 1/6 of the total figure) indicating these 200 were amongst badly burned bodies later identified as Hamas' fighters. Which tells you that Israeli helicopters and tanks were firing indiscriminately at everybody (I'm sure Hamas fighters didn't set themselves on fire):

4- Also, turns out that it's Netanyahu who's been systematically sabotaging any ceasefire deal to return the Israeli captives not Hamas:


A previous article from the Times Of Israel from April indicated the same thing:
"We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”

 
A few relevant developments/news that I don't believe have been shared here:

1- The largest Israeli illegal land grab in decades was just made public last week.
Zionist land theft is basically the root cause of this catastrophe in Palestine dating back to 1948 and before.
European Zionist colonizers knew well from the start that you can't create a Jewish majority state in an Arab majority land without ethnically cleansing and transferring the indigenous Palestinian population.

2- From a highly respected British Medical journal (The Lancet), they're indicating that it is not implausible that the total number of deaths attributable to Israel's war in Gaza to reach 186,000 or more! We're basically witnessing the genocide of our generation.

They applied a Conservative estimate of 4 indirect deaths per 1 direct death (since based on recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from 3 to 15 times the number of direct deaths):

3- As most pro-Palestinian sources have been saying from the beginning, it is now confirmed from Israeli sources that Israel employed their infamous Hannibal Directive on Oct 7 (to kill their own citizens to prevent them from being abducted to Gaza).
Tbh, this shouldn't be surprising since a few weeks (or days) after October 7 Israel reduced their casualty figure by over 200 overnight (about 1/6 of the total figure) indicating these 200 were amongst badly burned bodies later identified as Hamas' fighters. Which tells you that Israeli helicopters and tanks were firing indiscriminately at everybody (I'm sure Hamas fighters didn't set themselves on fire):

4- Also, turns out that it's Netanyahu who's been systematically sabotaging any ceasefire deal to return the Israeli captives not Hamas:


A previous article from the Times Of Israel from April indicated the same thing:
"We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”

Hmmmmm!
 
A few relevant developments/news that I don't believe have been shared here:

1- The largest Israeli illegal land grab in decades was just made public last week.
Zionist land theft is basically the root cause of this catastrophe in Palestine dating back to 1948 and before.
European Zionist colonizers knew well from the start that you can't create a Jewish majority state in an Arab majority land without ethnically cleansing and transferring the indigenous Palestinian population.

2- From a highly respected British Medical journal (The Lancet), they're indicating that it is not implausible that the total number of deaths attributable to Israel's war in Gaza to reach 186,000 or more! We're basically witnessing the genocide of our generation.

They applied a Conservative estimate of 4 indirect deaths per 1 direct death (since based on recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from 3 to 15 times the number of direct deaths):

3- As most pro-Palestinian sources have been saying from the beginning, it is now confirmed from Israeli sources that Israel employed their infamous Hannibal Directive on Oct 7 (to kill their own citizens to prevent them from being abducted to Gaza).
Tbh, this shouldn't be surprising since a few weeks (or days) after October 7 Israel reduced their casualty figure by over 200 overnight (about 1/6 of the total figure) indicating these 200 were amongst badly burned bodies later identified as Hamas' fighters. Which tells you that Israeli helicopters and tanks were firing indiscriminately at everybody (I'm sure Hamas fighters didn't set themselves on fire):

4- Also, turns out that it's Netanyahu who's been systematically sabotaging any ceasefire deal to return the Israeli captives not Hamas:


A previous article from the Times Of Israel from April indicated the same thing:
"We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”

Is this all from some conference that you sre attending??
 
Israel's war in Gaza
You just shat yourself again. It's Hamas's war, no matter where it's fought. Hamas's relative weakness just ensures that it's mostly going to be fought in Gaza.
3- As most pro-Palestinian sources have been saying from the beginning, it is now confirmed from Israeli sources that Israel employed their infamous Hannibal Directive on Oct 7 (to kill their own citizens to prevent them from being abducted to Gaza).
Can't be taken seriously. I have lost count of the number of "confirmed from X sources" articles I have read over the years that are sensationalistic bullsh!t. This is overwhelmingly more likely to be one of those, than to be true. A great deal more confirmation is required.
"We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
Hamas has to offer terms that are within the bounds of acceptability. "We attacked you and committed outrageous acts including kidnapping, but we'll return the hostages if you don't set foot on our territory" is a risible offer.

Stop offering up nonsense. Propaganda has to be believable to be effective.
 
Yes, they're a "Fact". Unfortunately the original nearly-indefensible design of Israel's borders combined with the unwillingness of its neighbours to accept the imposed partition assured that eventually at least part of the West Bank would have to be occupied, either as part of Israel or an Israeli-controlled security zone. Several attempts were made to extinguish Israel, which essentially legitimized the "might makes right" situation on the ground there now. Whatever international law has to say about taking territory as spoils of war is absurd in the frame of "you have to give them back their land after each failed attack, even though they are likely to do it again and it gives them advantages".

There can be no peace with Israel if the conditions always have to include factors that threaten Israel's security (return of territory, right of return). The widespread anti-Jewishness permeating political institutions and objectors to Israel's conduct means there are no guarantees any nation or institution can make that Israel can trust. Anti-Jewishness can't be purged by anyone from the outside - it has to be purged from the inside. That means the UN, the universities, the communities, etc.
Sometimes I really wonder if we learned anything from the Holocaust. In a country like Canada where diversity is supposed to be celebrated, it is really sad to see the degree to which anti-semitism is tolerated in Canada.
 
"We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
Didn't Hamas also offer to pay for all the damages, rebuilt the walls, and hold a no hard feelings Rave?
Those Hamas are good people.
 
Is this all from some conference that you sre attending??
Nope, it's actually just mainstream media and Israeli news sources that most people follow, including most posters on this thread (AP, Haaretz, Times of Israel).

You just shat yourself again. It's Hamas's war, no matter where it's fought. Hamas's relative weakness just ensures that it's mostly going to be fought in Gaza.
This is only true if the history of this conflict started on Oct 7th. But it didn't.
It is a settler colonial Zionist project that started in the early 20th century, mainly when the British promised a land that they don't own (Palestine) to a people who don't belong there (European Zionists) in their 1917 Belfour Declaration (when they were less than 1/10 of the population in Palestine).

So it is and it has always been Israel's war and occupation (we're just witnessimg the latest round). Just like the French occupation and colonization of Algeria and like the Italian colonization of Libya, the Palestinians are resisting their Zionist colonizers from Europe. Plain and simple.

And to be clear, no one is denying Jews their ancestral connection to the holy land. There were always mizrahi Jews in Palestine and the Muslim world who lived their for millennia and were not expelled en masse like in Christian Europe. It was not until European Zionism reared its ugly head and decided to take over Palestine (aided by the British) that we started to witness the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the occupation of their lands.

Hamas has to offer terms that are within the bounds of acceptability. "We attacked you and committed outrageous acts including kidnapping, but we'll return the hostages if you don't set foot on our territory" is a risible offer.

Stop offering up nonsense. Propaganda has to be believable to be effective.
Not propaganda. I'm using Israeli news sources. And these words (blaming Netanyahu for sabotaging any deal) are not mine, they're from Haim Rubinstein, the spokesman for the Israeli Hostages and Missing Families Forum himself (former, as he resigned later).

Sometimes I really wonder if we learned anything from the Holocaust. In a country like Canada where diversity is supposed to be celebrated, it is really sad to see the degree to which anti-semitism is tolerated in Canada.
There's definitely Anti-Semitism here in Canada and elsewhere, but I believe you're mixing up between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism. Being opposed and critical to Israel's actions (even its existence itself) and the racist Zionist ideology is not Anti-Jewish or Anti-Semitic. If someone is Anti-Saudi, that doesn't make them anti-Muslim/Islamophobe automatically. The same should be applied to Israel.
Also, thousands and thousands of religious and secular Jews are anti-Zionist and actually oppose the creation of the state of Israel. They can't be Jewish and anti-Jewish at the same time.

Didn't Hamas also offer to pay for all the damages, rebuilt the walls, and hold a no hard feelings Rave?
Those Hamas are good people.
Sounds like trolling. But no they didn't.
But if we're talking about payment for damages then it would be none other than Israel that should be repatriating the Palestinian refugees for ethnically cleansing them, confiscation their lands, massacring them.. Etc
 
This is only true if the history of this conflict started on Oct 7th. But it didn't.
"The history" of pretty much every "conflict" can be traced to earlier events. Oct 7th can't be rationalized. If your beef is really with the UK and other Europeans, take it up with them.
I believe you're mixing up between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism.
Nope. When Jewish people report being harassed, threatened, and physically attacked for being Jewish, that's pure anti-Jewishness. It has nothing to do with politics, and wouldn't be excusable even if it did. There is no apologism that will serve to whitewash it. The mask is off, and underneath is just ugly to the bone.
 
But if we're talking about payment for damages then it would be none other than Israel that should be repatriating the Palestinian refugees for ethnically cleansing them, confiscation their lands, massacring them.. Etc
Yeah naw yeah Gaza should pay for the damages that were caused in Israel on October 7th. Why wouldn't they? Should count themselves lucky Israel doesn't send them a bill for prisoners upkeep to be honest.
 
And to be clear, no one is denying Jews their ancestral connection to the holy land. There were always mizrahi Jews in Palestine Judea and the Muslim world who lived their for millennia and were not expelled en masse like in Christian Europe. It was not until European Zionism reared its ugly head and decided to take over Palestine (aided by the British) that we started to witness the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the occupation of their lands.
TFTFY

Muslims living for millennia??

Ummm, you mean a millennium and a bit, right? (1446 years in the Hirji calendar, to be precise)
 
Not certain it’s Hamas related, but parking it here as the most likely bet. Large explosion reported in Tel Aviv in the past hour. No word on casualties.


Unconfirmed reports showing possible drone wreckage, and attributing it to a hit on a high-rise.

 
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