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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
I would hate to hear your definition of stable. It will be interesting to see which leaders come out of the closet in order to make the necessary operational decisions. Right now there are probably dozens of low-level types with a couple of missiles in their living room wondering if it is time to deploy and for which target? Someone, somewhere must have a list and you can bet that Israel is watching for that person to make a phone call
I suspect that đŸ‡źđŸ‡± may actually be hoping for someone a wee bit less than "stable" to start launching missiles which will give them a good reason for some massive, bunker busting air attacks in the zone South of the Litani River.

I think đŸ‡źđŸ‡±'s 7th Armoured Brigade is also waiting for Hezbollah's fighters to launch attacks in the border area.
 
Very possible that Hezbollah will start to unravel as a force, first into regional commands, then into separate units as squabbles over priorities, resources, targets emerge. "Big Corporation Hezbollah" will be looked at as a failure. It will also effect how much they can control Lebanon. Some units will gravite to ISIS level of barbarity to anyone in Lebanon who does not toe their line, causing a backlash domestically. If Hezbollah does unravel, expect other players there to take out smaller ex-Hez groups.
 
Wondering how long before the Houthi get the FO part of the equation.





Got them on the back foot now.
 
Very possible that Hezbollah will start to unravel as a force, first into regional commands, then into separate units as squabbles over priorities, resources, targets emerge. "Big Corporation Hezbollah" will be looked at as a failure. It will also effect how much they can control Lebanon. Some units will gravite to ISIS level of barbarity to anyone in Lebanon who does not toe their line, causing a backlash domestically. If Hezbollah does unravel, expect other players there to take out smaller ex-Hez groups.
I bet they think twice before buying any electronic devices
.
 
I bet they think twice before buying any electronic devices
.
Imagine two guys in a dugout facing the border, with their relief a day overdue. "Abdul, call the boss on the phone!" "Screw you Mohammed you use your phone!"

I have to wonder how many cells will be forgotten about. Not to mention getting paid. I suspect much of the rank and file will start to disappear if the pay ceases.
 
I wonder how much intelligence the UN agencies have access to on stuff like this, and if, given where they work and how many people they employ, they have meaningful capacity to dig in? The UN probably has relatively little in-house intelligence collection, and like any intelligence enterprise, sharing presents its own problems.

He was suspended without pay since March pending an investigation, so they at least knew something was up. I’m not sure how much background investigation into employees is reasonable to expect from a group like UNRWA.

Anyone knowing Israel or other parties actively share information on allegations like this with, eg, UN bodies? Depending on how clandestine an individual’s extracurricular activities are, screening for such things could be a pretty heavy lift.

And, alternatively, maybe it was openly known. I’m not sure.
 
I wonder how much intelligence the UN agencies have access to on stuff like this, and if, given where they work and how many people they employ, they have meaningful capacity to dig in? The UN probably has relatively little in-house intelligence collection, and like any intelligence enterprise, sharing presents its own problems.

He was suspended without pay since March pending an investigation, so they at least knew something was up. I’m not sure how much background investigation into employees is reasonable to expect from a group like UNRWA.

Anyone knowing Israel or other parties actively share information on allegations like this with, eg, UN bodies? Depending on how clandestine an individual’s extracurricular activities are, screening for such things could be a pretty heavy lift.

And, alternatively, maybe it was openly known. I’m not sure.
Interpol theoretically should. But given this is the 87th UNRWA/HAMAS leadership Co-Op employee killed, I tend to think Hamas runs its HR Dept. It seems one was more unlikely to find a non Hamas member in the UNRWA than a Hamas member
 
Interpol theoretically should. But given this is the 87th UNRWA/HAMAS leadership Co-Op employee killed, I tend to think Hamas runs its HR

Interpol serves as more of a straight policing interchange of information; I've never seen them to deal with security intelligence, which this sort of thing would more fall under. Not saying it's impossible, but I'd be surprised. Interpol is a consumer/disseminator of information, not a generator thereof.
 
Interpol serves as more of a straight policing interchange of information; I've never seen them to deal with security intelligence, which this sort of thing would more fall under. Not saying it's impossible, but I'd be surprised. Interpol is a consumer/disseminator of information, not a generator thereof.
Sorry I missed the gathering aspect of your initial post. It’s clear that the Israelis knew of the links and had shared to the UN their concerns (as had several other countries). Which is where I had assumed that Interpol should then have pushed that to certain folks in the UN that oversee UNRWA.

However I also suspect that a lot in the UN couldn’t have cared less until it got splashed on the news.
 
UNIFIL now evacuating forces from the borders. Israel will move into Lebanon in the next few hours.
A push up to the Litani River perhaps, until and unless Lebanon gets its poop in a group and asserts sovereign control (versus Hezbollah) over the territory named in UNSCR 1701?
 
Well, âŹ‡ïž this part of Bibi's plan âŹ‡ïž is going well:

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Netanyahu gets political boost in Israel after series of strikes in Lebanon, Yemen​

MARK MACKINNON SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT
TEL AVIV
PUBLISHED 5 HOURS AGO UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO

Two weeks of unprecedented attacks targeting Iranian-backed militias in Lebanon and Yemen have not only restored Israel’s reputation as the most powerful military force in the Middle East, they appear to have refreshed the Israeli public’s confidence in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Beforehand, Mr. Netanyahu’s political future looked so bleak that one analyst described him as being in a “political hospice.” He was the face of Israel’s controversial war in the Gaza Strip, which has left more than 41,600 Palestinians dead while achieving neither of Israel’s war aims of destroying Hamas – which killed more than 1,100 Israelis in a shocking invasion of southern Israel last Oct. 7 – and returning the more than 100 Israelis and foreigners the militant group still holds hostage.

Mr. Netanyahu was blamed – by families of the hostages, as well as a growing number of foreign governments – for scuppering internationally backed attempts to negotiate a ceasefire that would see the remaining hostages freed in exchange for a halt in the fighting. Karim Khan, the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has been seeking a warrant for Mr. Netanyahu’s arrest since May in connection with alleged war crimes, including the intentional targeting of civilians in Gaza.

Mr. Netanyahu, who also faces domestic prosecutions related to alleged corruption, was viewed by many as intentionally prolonging the conflict in order to avoid facing an electoral and judicial reckoning. Opinion polls showed as recently as Sept. 5 that he would face defeat if he were forced to call an election.

Public opinion started to tilt back in his favour after thousands of pagers and walkie-talkies used by the Lebanon-based Hezbollah militia simultaneously exploded on Sept. 17 and 18. The attack, attributed to Israel’s Mossad intelligence service, killed at least 42 people and crippled Hezbollah’s internal communications network.

Israel and Hezbollah had been locked in a low-intensity conflict since Oct. 8, when Hezbollah began firing rockets and missiles into northern Israel in what it said was an act of “solidarity” with Hamas. The tit-for-tat fighting drove tens of thousands of people out of their homes on both sides of the border before the Israeli escalation, which Mr. Netanyahu said was aimed at allowing residents of northern Israel to return to their homes.

The pager attack was followed by a series of air strikes on Hezbollah targets, culminating in Friday’s assassination of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah and other senior members of the group in a massive bombing that destroyed his underground bunker in Beirut, as well as six apartment blocks above it. At least 33 people were killed.

It was Israel’s military and intelligence services that carried out the stunningly rapid destruction of Hezbollah’s command structure. But it was Mr. Netanyahu who gave the order to proceed – and who has been reaping the political benefits.

“People want to see strong leadership, and even though people may not agree with him or feel like he has no plan, he keeps destroying Israel’s enemies,” said Mitchell Barak, the Jerusalem-based political analyst who coined the “political hospice” line.

Mr. Barak, who worked for Mr. Netanyahu early in the Prime Minister’s political career, says his old boss is clearly on the rebound. “If there are elections tomorrow, he’s running unopposed,” he said, referring to the fact that Israel’s centre-left opposition has no candidate who can match Mr. Netanyahu’s popularity. “In a time of war, he’s a strong leader, for better or for worse.”

A poll published Friday by the Maariv newspaper – conducted after the pager attacks but before the assassination of Mr. Nasrallah – showed Mr. Netanyahu’s Likud party had regained its standing as the most popular in the country, on pace to win 25 seats in the 120-seat Knesset, compared with 19 for the National Unity bloc headed by former defence minister Benny Gantz. That marked a sharp reversal from the Sept. 5 survey conducted by the same newspaper, which found National Unity had surpassed Likud, with 23 seats to 22.

Mr. Netanyahu currently heads an eight-party coalition in the Knesset that has at times looked on the verge of dissolving over the possibility of a ceasefire deal in Gaza. Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir – who lead separate far-right factions that support Mr. Netanyahu – have repeatedly threatened to pull their support from the government if it agrees to a ceasefire deal before Hamas is completely destroyed.

While opposition parties have said they will support the government if it signs a ceasefire that returns the remaining hostages (33 of whom are believed to have died in captivity), Mr. Netanyahu has thus far stuck with his coalition partners.

His hold on power received a boost Sunday when Gideon Saar and his centre-right New Hope party joined the government, bolstering the coalition by four Knesset seats, to 68, and making it harder for any of the other coalition members to collapse the government on their own.

Another poll, conducted by the Tel Aviv-based Israel Democracy Institute, was in the field even as Mr. Nasrallah was assassinated – meaning some of the 850 respondents replied to questions Friday, while the Hezbollah leader was alive, while others replied Saturday and Sunday, after it was known he had been killed. Tamar Hermann, senior research fellow at the IDI, said she noted two key differences between those who responded to the poll before and after the assassination.

Among those who replied afterward, there was a higher level of trust in both Mr. Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant. “People think it was impossible to go on with what was happening,” Prof. Hermann said, referring to the Hezbollah rocket fire and the evacuation of northern Israel.

The other difference was how safe people felt before and after the assassination. On Friday, 59 per cent said they were worried about their safety. By Saturday or Sunday, that number was 68 per cent. “People expect a retaliation from Hezbollah or from Iran,” Prof. Hermann said.

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Just for the record, I'm a staunch supporter of đŸ‡źđŸ‡± in this set to but oh, gawd, how I wish Yoni Netanyahu, the smarter, braver, more thoughtful brother had not been KIA at Entebbe.
 

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Describing action as “raids” implies an intent to go in, achieve an objective, and get out. Guess we will see.
 
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