PrairieFella
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Hamas invaded Israel 2023
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PrairieFella
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Did you not read the article in the post you were responding to? The Israeli finance minister was literally talking about ethnically cleansing the North of Gaza and settling it. The plan is to push everyone South or out of Palestine. Nevermind the fact that food is being used as a weapon, which is clearly collective punishment at minimum. It's madness.
PrairieFella
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"Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, another far-right leader, sought to smooth over the decision by urging the Israeli public to focus on the big picture.
Smotrich - who advocates building new Israeli settlements in Gaza - said the military offensive was meant to force Palestinians to the south of the territory "and from there, with God's help, to third countries", permanently displacing them."
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Like Hamas does to control Gazans and prevent them from reporting their terrorist activity?
Let's ask a serious question: Which is worse, Hamas using food as a weapon to prevent Gazans from ousting them, or Israel controlling the food supply so Hamas loses its ability to control Gaza through food?
PrairieFella
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Two wrongs don't make a right is a pretty basic principle.
The worst one is whatever causes the most harm. So in this case, Israel is acting worse. 71,000 kids at minimum, which is probably severely undercounted are in the throes of acute malnutrition according to UNICEF as of a couple weeks ago. You frame Israel as "controlling" the food supply but that is an egregious understatement at best, disingenuous at worst as they're actively blockading Gaza. 5 trucks were recently allowed into Gaza by Israel after humanitarian aid was frozen by Israel a month ago. You think 5 trucks will make a dent in malnutrition?
I've already posted an article by the BBC, here's another adjacent article by the Guardian.
First Thing: UN says 14,000 babies could die in Gaza in next 48 hours under Israeli aid blockade
UK, France and Canada warn Israel of action if ‘egregious’ conduct in Gaza continues. Plus, Trump and Putin discuss Ukraine
www.theguardian.com
Let me ask you this, is the death of 14,000 kids by Friday worth tightening the screws on Hamas, who have been shattered? Let's say it's a severe overcount. Is the death of 2000 kids by Friday worth tightening the screws? As the food crisis tightening even further, is the death of 20,000 kids every week or so worth tightening the screws?
Colin Parkinson
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Food and waters are weapons, ask much of Africa about that. We (ROW) failed the Palestinians, by allowing Hamas to corrupt all of the agencies that might have acted a check valve to Hamas. Hamas has made it painfully clear, their goal is ethnic cleansing of every Jew in the most painful way possible. If they hold and rebuild in Gaza, then they will take over the WB and if you think Oct 7th and the response in Gaza is bad, just wait......I don't have a solution, just like noone here does. All I know is that blockading Gaza and allowing 5 trucks of aid in for a couple million people and having a cabinet minister openly talk about ethnic cleansing sure smells like a war crime to me.
Also, spare the "into the hands of Hamas" bit when it comes to food. Baby formula and canola oil aren't exactly strategic assets unless we're talking about the withholding of such foodstuffs as a weapon.
Gaza: Israel allows aid in after 11-week blockade but UN calls it 'drop in ocean'
The UN's humanitarian chief welcomes the move but says it is only "a drop in the ocean of what is urgently needed".www.bbc.com
PrairieFella
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I understand that and I agree that Hamas is vile, but to what end? Short of genociding every single man, woman and child in Gaza, how does Israel ever hope to find some sort of reconciliation with these people? By starving out the innocent, they're just generating new recruits for Hamas or the inevitable worse factions that will find Hamas insufficiently extreme in the future.
Jarnhamar
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Israel could give money, food, and building supplies to Palestinians. Then Palestinians will see how nice Israel is and not want to kill them.
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You're arguing as an idealist, unfortunately the real world isn't ideal.Two wrongs don't make a right is a pretty basic principle.
The worst one is whatever causes the most harm. So in this case, Israel is acting worse. 71,000 kids at minimum, which is probably severely undercounted are in the throes of acute malnutrition according to UNICEF as of a couple weeks ago. You frame Israel as "controlling" the food supply but that is an egregious understatement at best, disingenuous at worst as they're actively blockading Gaza. 5 trucks were recently allowed into Gaza by Israel after humanitarian aid was frozen by Israel a month ago. You think 5 trucks will make a dent in malnutrition?
I've already posted an article by the BBC, here's another adjacent article by the Guardian.
First Thing: UN says 14,000 babies could die in Gaza in next 48 hours under Israeli aid blockade
UK, France and Canada warn Israel of action if ‘egregious’ conduct in Gaza continues. Plus, Trump and Putin discuss Ukraine
Let me ask you this, is the death of 14,000 kids by Friday worth tightening the screws on Hamas, who have been shattered? Let's say it's a severe overcount. Is the death of 2000 kids by Friday worth tightening the screws? As the food crisis tightening even further, is the death of 20,000 kids every week or so worth tightening the screws?
Your arguments would be the ones that saw the allies stop invading Europe in WWII because of the covilian suffering the invasion caused.
There is no way to wage war without innocent people getting hurt. Sometimes the bitter taste of the medicine is the only cure for the illness.
I'm not pro-genocide or suffering, but I am realistic enough to understand that civilians will die any time a war happens. If Hamas had not engaged in mass scale terrorism, the people of Gaza would be living normal lives.
Colin Parkinson
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Well the way you suggest, has already failed utterly, as has many other variations. What you are seeing is what is left to do and that is to put the fear of god into your enemies.
Colin Parkinson
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Another blue on blue incident. Some good information of what is happening.
Quirky
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I highly doubt they can ever live in peace next to each other. The relocation of 2 milllion people is likely inevitable at this point, I can’t see how they can live humanely in rubble. Gaza is utterly destroyed. Religion, history, nationality, etc is all meaningless bullshit human constructs. These people have a finite time left on this planet, living caged in a hell hole for the rest of their lives without a real future is the real genocide.
daftandbarmy
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RAND has a plan....
RAND Offers Plan to House Palestinians While Rebuilding Gaza, After Fighting Ends
The Israel-Hamas conflict has thus far killed nearly 50,000 people, displaced nearly a million people, and destroyed more than 60 percent of Gaza's housing stock and much of its critical infrastructure. Post-conflict, rebuilding housing and infrastructure will likely take more than a decade, and rebuilding housing alone will make up three-quarters of reconstruction costs.
A RAND report offers a flexible plan to house displaced Palestinians while their homes and communities are rebuilt. “From Camps to Communities: Post-Conflict Shelter in Gaza” describes steps that could be implemented as soon as there is an approach to security and the conflict ends. While many parts of Gaza are uninhabitable, RAND analysis of satellite data finds that there are likely some neighborhoods where people could live during rebuilding, as well as sufficient open rural areas that could accommodate camps and new construction. The rationale for offering this plan now is to avoid housing people in poorly laid out temporary camps that usually become permanent, with low quality of life and an environment that can foster radicalization.
“Planning and building interim housing for displaced Palestinians is a first step in restoring their health, safety, and dignity,” said Shelly Culbertson, a RAND senior researcher. The new report is part of an ongoing series in which RAND offers short- and long-term plans for after the conflict. The report follows “Pathways to a Durable Israeli-Palestinian Peace”, released last month, and precedes “A Spatial Vision for Palestine: A Long-Term Plan that Can Begin Now,“ that covers long term infrastructure planning, to be released in April.
The new report describes main options for rebuilding Gaza, all of which will be needed to some extent in combination:
- Sheltering Palestinians outside Gaza (5 percent have already fled)
- Razing and rebuilding completely destroyed areas by large construction firms, while civilians live elsewhere
- Urban redevelopment, incrementally repairing and rebuilding certain neighborhoods while people live in them, an approach the authors call incremental urbanism
- A new type of camp that the study terms future-oriented camps—laid out with the structure of neighborhoods, with people living in them during incremental rebuilding of a permanent community
- Traditional formal and informal tent or caravan camps
- New neighborhoods constructed on undeveloped land
Brad Sallows
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Fortunately, none of those hypotheticals is imminent. Early reporting misinterpreted the source, which claims 14,100 cases of acute malnutrition among children up to 5 years old are likely in about a year, if conditions don't change.
Evidently many people lack a BS/plausibility detector. 14,000 malnutrition deaths in 48 hours? Really? And then what in the next 48 hours, and the 48 hours after that, etc - none, or 14,000 every two days? And this just starts all of a sudden, or were there a bunch of deaths in the preceding two days (etc)?
Two Israeli Embassy staffers have been shot and killed outside the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, DC. One person is in custody and was reported to have chanted “free Palestine” in custody. My own speculation- sounds like a ‘target of opportunity’ hit outside a known Jewish event/site. Police have named Elias Rodriguez as the suspect, and have said he’s not previously known to police.
Forgive my admitted ignorance, but I was under the impression there wasn't a whole lot of undeveloped land in Gaza??
(I was always under the impression that Gaza was pretty tightly packed in)
daftandbarmy
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About 30% of Gaza is 'undeveloped' based on some sources..
Colin Parkinson
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Just look with Google maps and you see a fair bit of empty space that was used for agriculture.
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