Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[CBH99]

I understand that and I agree that Hamas is vile, but to what end? Short of genociding every single man, woman and child in Gaza, how does Israel ever hope to find some sort of reconciliation with these people? By starving out the innocent, they're just generating new recruits for Hamas or the inevitable worse factions that will find Hamas insufficiently extreme in the future.

Mate, I hear what you are saying...

And like you, and everybody else here, I don't have any answers to any of the questions being asked.


I've contemplated a few times (while all by my lonesome self) if the Israel vs Gaza situation will inevitably result in the 'genocide' of the Palestinians in one form or another.

(Important note here - I'm not suggesting the Israelis are committing, or would commit, a Rwandan style genocide)



But I have often wondered if this will be the beginning of the end of the Palestinians. If a majority of them are relocated during reconstruction, even if its intended to be temporary, I doubt many of them would end up returning. (A mass relocation isn't even being discussed as far as I'm aware, so that point is moot)

But if the world agreed to a total relocation of the Palestinian population, I dont think it would take long before any Palestinian-specific traditions slowly just disappeared.

(And with each new generation, those traditions would become less & less common...and eventually would just disappear altogether. So a form of genocide, in a way. Cultural genocide if you will.)


We have a population that's been taught from a very, very young age to hate Israel and to hate Jewish people (both of which are a stone's throw away, literally...)

And that hatred has now been reinforced, as much as humanly possible, by Israel's actions in Gaza.

(Whether those actions are justified or not isn't the point. A kid who's house has been blown up and who has lost siblings or parents to Israeli military action probably isn't concerning themselves with whether the current situation on the ground is justified or not...)

---

I don't know if anybody anywhere knows the right answers to the questions you are asking. I sure don't.

Can they eventually live in harmony, side by side? Doubtful...it would take several generations just to breed the hate out of them. (And the hate isn't just coming from the one side either, but I get the feeling it's a lot more pronounced and on the surface on the Palestinian side)

 

[NavyShooter]

The thing which the Rand report is missing are the 'suggested' hotels that DJT was coming up with a few months back...build back better?

 

[KevinB]

Two Israeli Embassy staffers have been shot and killed outside the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, DC. One person is in custody and was reported to have chanted “free Palestine” in custody. My own speculation- sounds like a ‘target of opportunity’ hit outside a known Jewish event/site. Police have named Elias Rodriguez as the suspect, and have said he’s not previously known to police.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israeli-embassy-staff-washington-dc-1.7540699

Two Israeli Embassy staffers shot dead outside D.C.'s Capital Jewish Museum — NBC News

The gunman shouted "Free Palestine" as he was being arrested, law enforcement officials said.

apple.news

The victims were named by the embassy as Yaron Lischinsky and Sarah Milgrim. Earlier, Yechiel Leiter, Israel’s ambassador to the United States, said they were a couple on a night out and were about to get engaged




Senseless violence like this is what makes me fairly apathetic if Bibi just went ahead and bulldozed all of Palestine.

 

[ModlrMike]

Mark my words. Given the assailant's hispanic sounding name, the commentary will shift to whether he was "legal" or not, as justification for his actions.

 

[KevinB]

Mark my words. Given the assailant's hispanic sounding name, the commentary will shift to whether he was "legal" or not, as justification for his actions.

He’s been in the US over 10 years at the minimum if he isn’t a native born citizen.

So not sure that method will fly.

 

[ModlrMike]

Facts and reality are not the basis of discussion with this administration.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Warning shots? (looking for the sarcasm button)

Canada summons Israeli ambassador over shots fired towards four Canadian diplomats

The federal government has summoned Israel’s ambassador to Canada to explain why Israeli soldiers shot in the vicinity of a delegation of diplomats.

nationalpost.com

OTTAWA — The federal government has summoned Israel’s ambassador to Canada to explain why Israeli soldiers shot in the vicinity of a delegation of diplomats — including four Canadian representatives — touring the West Bank Wednesday. . . .

Wednesday evening, Prime Minister Mark Carney said he expects an “immediate explanation of what happened,” calling the incident “totally unacceptable.”
“It’s some of the many things that are totally unacceptable that are going on in the region,” he added.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Israel could give money, food, and building supplies to Palestinians again. Then Palestinians will see how nice Israel is and not want to kill them this time.

FTFY

Israeli disengagement from the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looters steal Gaza greenhouses

A recent spate of looting of greenhouses in the Gaza Strip has caused more than $1 million of damage to a farming project set up to provide jobs for thousands of Palestinians, officials said.

www.aljazeera.com

Looters thwart Gaza efforts

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip – Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip. American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers...

www.spokesman.com

Warning shots? (looking for the sarcasm button)

Canada summons Israeli ambassador over shots fired towards four Canadian diplomats

The federal government has summoned Israel’s ambassador to Canada to explain why Israeli soldiers shot in the vicinity of a delegation of diplomats.

nationalpost.com

So far, initial IDF statements seem to claim that the warning shots were more to keep the folks channelled to an approved route:

We'll see.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What did Hamas and the Gazan people expect to happen after Oct 7th ?

What they did wasn't just a terror attack where the blew up a building. The killed, mutilated, cooked, raped, kidnaped, displayed and tutored civilians, children, women and soldiers all the same.

That kind of barbaric depravity can only be met one way.

 

[dapaterson]

What did Hamas and the Gazan people expect to happen after Oct 7th ?

What they did wasn't just a terror attack where the blew up a building. The killed, mutilated, cooked, raped, kidnaped, displayed and tutored civilians, children, women and soldiers all the same.

That kind of barbaric depravity can only be met one way.

By genocide?

 

[KevinB]

By genocide?

When someone commits acts of war and terrorism on you, and you wage unrestricted warfare on them, until they surrender, I think that’s a fair.

Right now by the handwringing going on, I swear there never would have been a bombing campaign in WW2 and especially not a firebombing campaign.

At the end of the day Gaza FA’d and is getting the FO part.

It is the choice of the Palestinians to renounce violence and throw Hamas etc out.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

FTFY

Israeli disengagement from the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looters steal Gaza greenhouses

A recent spate of looting of greenhouses in the Gaza Strip has caused more than $1 million of damage to a farming project set up to provide jobs for thousands of Palestinians, officials said.

www.aljazeera.com

Looters thwart Gaza efforts

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip – Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip. American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers...

www.spokesman.com

So far, initial IDF statements seem to claim that the warning shots were more to keep the folks channelled to an approved route:
View attachment 93421
We'll see.

The IDF also is looking at how IDF soldiers shot other IDF soldiers. Crappy things happen in Urban combat, particularly by troops that have been at it for a long time.

 

[QV]

When someone commits acts of war and terrorism on you, and you wage unrestricted warfare on them, until they surrender, I think that’s a fair.

Right now by the handwringing going on, I swear there never would have been a bombing campaign in WW2 and especially not a firebombing campaign.

At the end of the day Gaza FA’d and is getting the FO part.

It is the choice of the Palestinians to renounce violence and throw Hamas etc out.

The Palestinians elected those MFs.

 

[CountDC]

By genocide?

Doesn't populations decrease during genocides? Is striking military targets wrong in a war?

 

[dapaterson]

Doesn't populations decrease during genocides? Is striking military targets wrong in a war?

Hospitals? Stripping prisoners and forcing them to march in front of your tanks? Political leaders calling for the expulsion of the population ?

 

[KevinB]

Hospitals? Stripping prisoners and forcing them to march in front of your tanks? Political leaders calling for the expulsion of the population ?

Hospital, Mosques, all other protected sites lose their protection when used for Military/Terrorist purposes.

Don't get me wrong I dont think Israel has always acted responsibly.

BUT - if someone keeps saying they are going to kill you, and has tried multiple times before - you really can't be blamed when you try to remove them as a neighbor.

 

[QV]

Israel is acting like nobody is going to come to their rescue. Because nobody will. That is their reality while the world dances on the head of a pin.

 

[dapaterson]

BUT - if someone keeps saying they are going to kill you, and has tried multiple times before - you really can't be blamed when you try to remove them as a neighbor.

Problem is that both sides make those claims.

 

[KevinB]

Problem is that both sides make those claims.

The issue is that some believe the Hamas side.

Ignoring all the various Arab wars waged on Israel since their creation...

Then even ignoring that Israel set them up for self government, and invested money into trying to help them be self sufficient...
Hamas then decided to go full jihadist lunatic on Oct 7th.

• Attacking Thousands of Civilians
• Murder and Rape of unarmed civilians
• Kidnapping, Dismemberment and Sexual Abuse

Then Hamas cries that the Israelis react?

Hey Palestine - you have 2 choices - 1) Keep supporting Hamas and the IDF can wipe you out, or 2) Reject Hamas and find a peaceful way forward.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Nor were they vowing to, teaching their kids to, or in execution phase of attempting to cleanse a geographic area of anyone from the river to the sea. When your ideology is murderous and your goals stated publicly, well don't be surprised if 'ye be treated as such.

Right. Bloody well right.