Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[Halifax Tar]

Right, but how much is that from Muslim countries "pushing" Jews out and how much is it from the local Jews saying "Waitwhat? There's a new Jewish country right next door I can move to and gain immediate citizenship? Sign me up!".

It was mostly the latter.

Im sure the Muslim countries fought hard to keep their Jewish populations.

 

[Lumber]

Im sure the Muslim countries fought hard to keep their Jewish populations.

Look, I don't disagree with your assessment of how butt hurt Iraq wasn't to lose all their Jews.

However, the current narrative, whether said clearly or simply implied, is that Israel is morally superior for allowing so many Muslims to live in Israel when Muslim countries within the ME and North Africa "kicked out" so many Jews. They use the population decline of Jews within those Muslim countries as evidence. This is a false narrative. It doesn't mean that Israel isn't "good" for what their treatment of Muslims within their country, but it does mean that the Muslim countries aren't "bad" just because the numbers of Jews in their countries went down.

Now, if you really want to assess if the Muslim countries are "bad" wrt their Jewish populations, you would need to look into how Jews were actually treated in those countries while they still lived there, and not really solely on population numbers.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Look, I don't disagree with your assessment of how butt hurt Iraq wasn't to lose all their Jews.

However, the current narrative, whether said clearly or simply implied, is that Israel is morally superior for allowing so many Muslims to live in Israel when Muslim countries within the ME and North Africa "kicked out" so many Jews. They use the population decline of Jews within those Muslim countries as evidence. This is a false narrative. It doesn't mean that Israel isn't "good" for what their treatment of Muslims within their country, but it does mean that the Muslim countries aren't "bad" just because the numbers of Jews in their countries went down.

Now, if you really want to assess if the Muslim countries are "bad" wrt their Jewish populations, you would need to look into how Jews were actually treated in those countries while they still lived there, and not really solely on population numbers.

Arguably until Oct 7th the Israelis has been more welcoming to Palestinians than any Muslim country in the world.

The Palestinians FAFO'd too hard.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Arguably until Oct 7th the Israelis has been more welcoming to Palestinians than any Muslim country in the world.

The Palestinians FAFO'd too hard.

And Israeli leadership was FUBAR, of course ...

What went wrong? A summary of Israel's findings​

In an unusual move for the organization, the Shin Bet spy agency published details of its investigation Tuesday. Here is a list of its main findings:

• Israel maintained a policy of calm with Hamas, which allowed for the group's "massive buildup." Israel allowed Qatar to transfer millions of dollars to Hamas to fund its governing bureaucracy in Gaza. The money was diverted to Hamas' military capabilities.
• Israel falsely thought Hamas was trying to inflame tensions in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, rather than maneuvering to invade Israel from Gaza. Israel had concluded that any major attack would be a multi-front assault from militias throughout the region, not just from Gaza.
• Israel thought its border barrier with Gaza, a system of fences and walls, was more fortified than it actually was.
• Israel had a poor network of spies in Gaza, following a botched intelligence operation in Gaza that Hamas uncovered in 2018. Gaza is a closed-off territory, making it difficult for Israel to recruit sources there.
• Hamas's decision to attack when it did was due to a confluence of three factors: Israeli practices regarding religious Jewish ultranationalist activities at the Al Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem, which is also revered in Judaism; Israel's treatment of Palestinian prisoners, which had hardened under Israel's far-right government; and the perception that Israel's social cohesion was weakened, which was at a time of domestic Israeli street protests over Netanyahu's weakening of the country's judiciary.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1-5318591/israel-shin-bet-security-failure-october-7-attack

 

[Lumber]

and the perception that Israel's social cohesion was weakened, which was at a time of domestic Israeli street protests over Netanyahu's weakening of the country's judiciary.

People in the west aren't often aware of (or don't appreciate) just how huge a gulf there is between the Israeli left and the Israeli right.

Hamas wasn't aware that when it comes to the safety and security of Israel and its people, that that gulf doesn't exist.

 

[Quirky]

Israeli minister touts Gaza 'real estate bonanza', defying international backlash

Bezalel Smotrich, an ultranationalist who has been sanctioned by the UK and others, said he was in discussion with the US over the idea.

www.bbc.com

And reinforcing that this isn’t a military action against defined targets, rather levelling everything in sight to ethnic cleanse and annex land.

There isn’t much the world can/will do about it. Just more letters, resolutions and conference dog and pony shows.

 

[OldSolduer]

And Israeli leadership was FUBAR, of course ...

What went wrong? A summary of Israel's findings​

In an unusual move for the organization, the Shin Bet spy agency published details of its investigation Tuesday. Here is a list of its main findings:

• Israel maintained a policy of calm with Hamas, which allowed for the group's "massive buildup." Israel allowed Qatar to transfer millions of dollars to Hamas to fund its governing bureaucracy in Gaza. The money was diverted to Hamas' military capabilities.
• Israel falsely thought Hamas was trying to inflame tensions in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, rather than maneuvering to invade Israel from Gaza. Israel had concluded that any major attack would be a multi-front assault from militias throughout the region, not just from Gaza.
• Israel thought its border barrier with Gaza, a system of fences and walls, was more fortified than it actually was.
• Israel had a poor network of spies in Gaza, following a botched intelligence operation in Gaza that Hamas uncovered in 2018. Gaza is a closed-off territory, making it difficult for Israel to recruit sources there.
• Hamas's decision to attack when it did was due to a confluence of three factors: Israeli practices regarding religious Jewish ultranationalist activities at the Al Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem, which is also revered in Judaism; Israel's treatment of Palestinian prisoners, which had hardened under Israel's far-right government; and the perception that Israel's social cohesion was weakened, which was at a time of domestic Israeli street protests over Netanyahu's weakening of the country's judiciary.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1-5318591/israel-shin-bet-security-failure-october-7-attack

Complacency is the Reader's Digest version.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Right, but how much is that from Muslim countries "pushing" Jews out and how much is it from the local Jews saying "Waitwhat? There's a new Jewish country right next door I can move to and gain immediate citizenship? Sign me up!".

It was mostly the latter.

If your not a Muslim in a Islamic country, you are very much a 2nd class citizen, your rights to own property, to sue a Muslim and to get a job are very limited. In the more enlightened countries, you be lucky to be ignored, as long as you keep your head down and say nothing. The only place where the Jews might have been able to stay in large numbers was Morocco. The rest of the countries made it very clear what awaits if they stayed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

People in the west aren't often aware of (or don't appreciate) just how huge a gulf there is between the Israeli left and the Israeli right.

Hamas wasn't aware that when it comes to the safety and security of Israel and its people, that that gulf doesn't exist.

People would be shocked at how diverse Israelis are, 2 Israeli = 3 opinions. Sadly many of the victims of Oct 7th were vulnerable due to their attempts to help Palestinians and give them jobs. They were the people who believed the two could peacefully co-exist.

 

[Kirkhill]

Roy Ben-Tzvi (@roybentzvi)

Being a Jew in Spain is frightening

substack.com

A Spanish Jew's perspective.

I remind all that Franco, darling of the Church and buddy of Hitler, Mussolini and Salazar, only died in 1975. Portugal's Salazar died in 1970.

It took until 1986 before they were considered ready to join the EEC.

Spain is not alone within Europe in its attitudes.

....

Conversely, leaders of Muslim majority nations often are more concerned with the heirs of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Baathists, than they are with the Jews and the Great Satan.

 

[OldSolduer]

Roy Ben-Tzvi (@roybentzvi)

Being a Jew in Spain is frightening

substack.com

A Spanish Jew's perspective.

I remind all that Franco, darling of the Church and buddy of Hitler, Mussolini and Salazar, only died in 1975. Portugal's Salazar died in 1970.

It took until 1986 before they were considered ready to join the EEC.

Spain is not alone within Europe in its attitudes.

....

Conversely, leaders of Muslim majority nations often are more concerned with the heirs of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Baathists, than they are with the Jews and the Great Satan.

And Canada's record of how this nation treated Jews prior to World War 2 was not unblemished. And its going that way now.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Roy Ben-Tzvi (@roybentzvi)

Being a Jew in Spain is frightening

substack.com

A Spanish Jew's perspective.

I remind all that Franco, darling of the Church and buddy of Hitler, Mussolini and Salazar, only died in 1975. Portugal's Salazar died in 1970.

It took until 1986 before they were considered ready to join the EEC.

Spain is not alone within Europe in its attitudes.

....

Conversely, leaders of Muslim majority nations often are more concerned with the heirs of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Baathists, than they are with the Jews and the Great Satan.

And they're one of the PIGS....

What Does PIIGS Mean?​

PIIGS is a derisive acronym for Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain, which were the weakest economies in the eurozone during the European debt crisis.

At the time, the acronym's five countries garnered attention due to their weakened economic output and financial instability, which heightened doubts about the nations' abilities to pay back bondholders and spurred fears that these nations would default on their debts.

What Are PIIGS and the Link With European Debt Crisis

PIIGS is an acronym for Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain, which were the weakest economies in the eurozone during the European debt crisis.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Kirkhill]

And another...

Roy Ben-Tzvi (@roybentzvi)

To their defense, they have always been clear & honest about their intentions The West just fails to listen to them

substack.com

Short form ...

They don't have to recognize Christian laws because Islam is right.

We have reached this stage:

I'm right.
You're wrong.

Have a nice life.

 

[QV]

Opinion: Israel's strike on Doha was legal and justified — Canada should support it

Canada’s finger-wagging at Israel reeks of hypocrisy

nationalpost.com

Excellent article explaining the Israeli strike in Doha.

 

[OldSolduer]

And another...

Roy Ben-Tzvi (@roybentzvi)

To their defense, they have always been clear & honest about their intentions The West just fails to listen to them

substack.com

Short form ...

They don't have to recognize Christian laws because Islam is right.

We have reached this stage:

I'm right.
You're wrong.

Have a nice life.

While we chop your heads off in the village square.

During the time of the Spanish Inquisition (I know I know) Jews and Muslims who had converted to Christianity were often the targets of the Inquisitors.

Didn't expect that did you???

 

[Kirkhill]

While we chop your heads off in the village square.

During the time of the Spanish Inquisition (I know I know) Jews and Muslims who had converted to Christianity were often the targets of the Inquisitors.

Didn't expect that did you???

In 1610 Spain kicked out the Moriscos (Moors and Jews who had inadquately converted to Spanish Catholicism).

They promptly packed up and left for Morocco where they joined up with a bunch of unemployed Protestant privateers that had had their letters of marque pulled. They had been authorised by their governments to seize Spanish ships and cargos but their governments had made peace with the Spaniards. So they sold their services to the Muslim government of Morocco.

Operating out of the port of Sale alongside Turks and Berbers they proceeded to raid European coasts and capture whites which were sold across te Mediterranean.

Sallee Rovers.
Barbary Corsairs.

 

[Kirkhill]

Wiki on the Danish PM.

Mette Frederiksen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I hope that she rubs off on Carney and he can take our Liberals o the same journey.

 

[Kirkhill]

Further to Denmark

So she donated her stock of M109s to Ukraine and replaced them with 19 CAESAR 8x8s.

She donated them to Ukraine.

She is replacing them with a set of Israeli ATMOS howitzers and PULS rocket launchers.

She has also donated

French built CAESAR 6x6s
Slovak built Zuzanas
Ukrainian built Bohdanas
Found Soviet era 2S1s
Mortars

Ammunition for all of the above including 122mm rockets.

Danish Military Support for Ukraine

On February 24, 2022, Ukraine was attacked by Russia. Since then, Denmark, in close cooperation with allies and partners, has taken significant responsibility in supporting Ukraine. Denmark has provided Ukraine with weapons, equipment, and military training.

www.fmn.dk

....

In addition

Long Range Precision weapons that frighten Moscow

Denmark to field long-range strike weapons in bid to deter attacks

In that logic, neutralizing enemy launch capabilities at range will be essential.

www.defensenews.com

A 9 BUSD GBAD system

Denmark’s record-setting arms purchase raises eyebrows and anxiety

By eschewing American-made munitions for their European counterparts, the Danish government is bracing for Russian antagonism and sending a message to the West

theweek.com

Skyranger VSHORAD

Terma secures contract for integration of new VSHORAD system - Defence Industry Europe

Danish defence company Terma has received its first purchase order from the DALO to integrate a new VSHORAD system for the Royal Danish Army.

defence-industry.eu

And much much more

Danish acquisition programmes - European Security & Defence

In response to an increasingly challenging international security environment, Denmark has decided to accelerate the modernisation of its armed forces. Efforts are being undertaken both in the short and long term, to strengthen Denmark’s deterrence capabilities and enhance its contribution to NATO.

euro-sd.com

BAE wins $2.5B deal to supply more CV90 vehicles to Denmark, Sweden

Denmark and Sweden are collectively spending $2.5 billion to bolster their CV90 combat vehicle stock while still supplying more vehicles to Ukraine.

www.defensenews.com

 

[OldSolduer]

Wiki on the Danish PM.

Mette Frederiksen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I hope that she rubs off on Carney and he can take our Liberals o the same journey.

Hahaha you’re joking aren’t you?

 

[Kirkhill]

Hahaha you’re joking aren’t you?

I dare to dream.