• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Has anyone here completed FSA/HRA QL3s in the past year or so?

Navyynick

Guest
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I'm currently in the middle of a COT to the clerk trade, I have 8 years in the navy. I was just wondering what to expect in terms of drill, inspections, etc with the 3s course in Borden. Need to know what kind of mindset to go into borden with after 8 pretty lax years in the navy.

Any insight is appreciated, thanks
 

Blackadder1916

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,068
Points
1,160
Navyynick said:
. . .  clerk trade . . .  after 8 pretty lax years in the navy.

If recent comment in other topics are anything to go on, don't call them "clerks" anymore, it may be considered demeaning.  And from some of the same comments it is likely that 8 years in anything other than the clerk trade is not considered lax.  ::)

Best of luck though.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
I've taken my courses a while ago but we've had a couple new mbr's who've recently graduated from the HRA RQ Pte course.  Other than being a longer version because it's all one course now instead of the old QL3 and QL5 it's the same with some modification to what is taught.  Myself and our WO asked your specific questions because it's fairly new still and constantly being revamped.  We were told that they still have some inspections in front of the bed a couple times a week but they decreased as the course went on.  On other days staff usually open the doors quick to make sure they're not a mess, beds made etc.  No kit layout.  We didn't ask about drill but I doubt it other than you march as a group when going for meals, except breakfast and dinner which is on your own time. and you form up in front of your barracks march to the school.  You will be marched by the course senior.  You won't usually see the staff until you get to the school.  It's apparently still just as relaxed as I remember.  I don't recall staff ever raising their voice once.  The goal there is to teach mbr's the knowledge they need for their trade. It's not about rerunning BMQ.  You shouldn't have any issues.  The only drill we had was close to the end of the course and that was just to practice for the graduation.  That was also extremely relaxed, no yelling or anything like that.

Also, forget the word "clerk".  There is no such thing in the CAF anymore.  It's HRA or FSA.  I correct people on it but I've seen some Sr. NCO's get pissed about it.



 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,534
Points
1,060
stellarpanther said:
Also, forget the word "clerk".  There is no such thing in the CAF anymore.  It's HRA or FSA.  I correct people on it but I've seen some Sr. NCO's get pissed about it.

Its a colloquialism, probably not a hill to die on. I haven't been a "Sig Op" in 8 years and Rad Op hasn't existed in 20.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
PuckChaser said:
Its a colloquialism, probably not a hill to die on. I haven't been a "Sig Op" in 8 years and Rad Op hasn't existed in 20.

I agree but we have some people in our trade that are really serious about it. When I hear it from a customer, I usually just look up and say "you mean HRA", give a little laugh and get back to what I'm doing. 

 
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,534
Points
1,060
At the end of the day, 99% of the Cpls that'll show up to an OR have no idea who to see. They'll eventually learn if people aren't being belligerent about the names.

Cpl Bloggins: "I need to see a clerk about a claim."
HRA: "Sure, let me grab one of our FSAs for you."

If the answer is "They're not clerks, they're FSAs." That Cpl will probably just think subj HRA is being a jerk and won't learn a damn thing.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
PuckChaser said:
At the end of the day, 99% of the Cpls that'll show up to an OR have no idea who to see. They'll eventually learn if people aren't being belligerent about the names.

Cpl Bloggins: "I need to see a clerk about a claim."
HRA: "Sure, let me grab one of our FSAs for you."

If the answer is "They're not clerks, they're FSAs." That Cpl will probably just think subj HRA is being a jerk and won't learn a damn thing.

I've never heard anyone being belligerent about it and would quickly sort the HRA out if he worked for me.  I've heard a couple of them joke and ask what a clerk is but do so in a humorous manner.  For the most part I think the majority of people are using the correct title.  It's not the end of the world at least not to me if someone says clerk but we are trying to educate those who don't know or chose not to use the correct title.

 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,234
Points
1,060
[quote author=Navyynick]Need to know what kind of mindset to go into borden with
[/quote]

The whole "we're not clerks" seems like a fairly significant part of the current mindset.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Jarnhamar said:
The whole "we're not clerks" seems like a fairly significant part of the current mindset.

Not really, it should be nothing to think about.  If you apply for a new position, call it what it is and that's it.  Seems like some people don't like it that they are being asked to call the trade by it's proper name.
 

Navyynick

Guest
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Wasnt aware that it was a frowned upon term, however it is nice to know considering I will be in be the trade, so I'll refrain from using the term "clerk". Thanks for input on life in borden.
 

BeyondTheNow

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
6
Points
530
Navyynick said:
Wasnt aware that it was a frowned upon term, however it is nice to know considering I will be in be the trade, so I'll refrain from using the term "clerk". Thanks for input on life in borden.

It’s not frowned upon unless one uses the word “clerk” in conjunction with “just a.” Then you’ll be in trouble ;)

The splitting of the trade is still relatively fresh, and it’s simply habit. I’ve heard CoCs at multiple locations tell their subordinates to “go see a clerk.”, or identify a specific individual. It’s what they know, and are used to.

You’ll still encounter it often. Many simply don’t know which trade handles what issue. (For example, it’s still a common misconception among lower ranks/newer pers that FSA deals with standard pay issues when that’s an HRA matter.)

As was mentioned earlier, a mbr generally goes to the OR wanting to see a “clerk.” They’ll then explain why, and they’ll be directed to whomever. The mbr differentiating/knowing who they need to see will come with time, and learning from past visits.

That being said, where relevant paperwork is being completed, or in the context of applicable conversation, HRA/FSA mbrs won’t refer to themselves as clerks anymore, simply because it’s attached to “RMS Clerk”, which doesn’t exist. (You might hear it slip by those who were RMS for years, and are simply used to saying it, but in my experience they’ll generally correct themselves.)

Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone personally who’s completed the course at Borden in say, the last 6mths to a year. I have a few buddies who were/are posted there helping with COVID stuff though. They said everything was alright, minus travel restrictions and typical isolation orders. But that’s relaxed a lot now.

Otherwise, the last few people I know who completed it said it was fine—Much more relaxed compared to 3s for other trades, which I’m sure you knew.

 

ballz

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
402
Points
910
BeyondTheNow said:
As was mentioned earlier, a mbr generally goes to the OR wanting to see a “clerk.” They’ll then explain why, and they’ll be directed to whomever. The mbr differentiating/knowing who they need to see will come with time, and learning from past visits.

Until they switch units and find out a different unit has split the tasks between the trades unevenly  :nod:
 

BeyondTheNow

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
6
Points
530
ballz said:
Until they switch units and find out a different unit has split the tasks between the trades unevenly  :nod:

Haha, this is true.

NNick: *Technically* there’s supposed to be very distinct lines between FSA & HRA and who is supposed to be managing/initiating/completing what. But yea, depending on where you are there might be varying degrees of overlap. Both trades are in the red (or HRA might still be in the yellow...I haven’t checked in quite a while.) Many units are understaffed. I perform duties of both as needed.

That being said, as more and more (formerly RMS Clerks) release—who knew functions of both, because it was one trade—it’s easy for many to fill in where/as needed. The new pers coming in won’t have that advantage, at least not as easily. Sure there are some training elements that cover both trades, but not to the same extent—at least that’s what I’ve been told. Someone else will have to offer more details. I haven’t looked thoroughly at TPs for HRA/FSA trade qual since the split. I was more familiar with the RMS format.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Believe it or not they actually defined what duties are assigned to each trade.  The problem however, is that some units have been saying we're short staffed and doing the other trades job.  As of about 6 months or so ago, I've heard access to certain programs to anyone outside of that trade is being denied.  I;m not positive but I think the Reserves are still working under the old rules.  Sr. Leadership is trying to make it work but as long as some units keep on doing the work of the other trade, nothing will completely change.

 

ballz

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
402
Points
910
stellarpanther said:
Believe it or not they actually defined what duties are assigned to each trade.

Indeed, every trade has a Master Task List for which DPGR is responsible for. There were two the main problems for the FSA side when they did the split, one was that those who are at senior ranks don't have the requisite competencies to actually deduce what an FSA is supposed to be doing. The other being that they focused completely on the RMS Clerk trade tasks, and didn't consider the large amount of finance that the supply tech trade had taken on since the amalgamation of the finance and admin trades. As a result, we have FSAs who are supposed to be our financial (accounting) experts being everyone's personal secretary doing everyone's personal admin for them, such as filling out their travel requests, arranging their travel, booking their flights, and doing their claim for them. Meanwhile, the warehouse personnel are paying their own invoices, meaning 80-90% of the money getting spent in a unit never goes through an FSA.

stellarpanther said:
Sr. Leadership is trying to make it work but as long as some units keep on doing the work of the other trade, nothing will completely change.

I'd like to know who those senior leaders are. What I've observed is a complete absence of senior leadership on this issue, leaving a vacuum where positive direction should exist, which results in everyone trying to make up their direction given the complete absence of any.
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
What shouldn't be happening is HRA/FSA MWO's or WO's in some cases getting together to make their own arrangements as to who will do what tasks or having an FSA MWO saying to the HRA MWO that we are so short staffed that we can't keep up so the HRA's with a couple extra bodies start taking on some FSA duties.  If clothing stores had a shortage, they wouldn't make a deal with the an HRA section to have a couple HRA's start doing supply tasks.
you
Edit to say: My son just read what I said above and is saying that in a Reserve unit they would.  They do all kinds of stupid stuff like that according to him.  Sometimes he says it's hard to remember what your trade is when you go in on a Thursday night.
 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
7,744
Points
1,360
stellarpanther said:
Edit to say: My son just read what I said above and is saying that in a Reserve unit they would.  They do all kinds of stupid stuff like that according to him.  Sometimes he says it's hard to remember what your trade is when you go in on a Thursday night.

The proper term to be used is MOSID.

Trade is an old term that was eliminated as it (and Occupation for officers) represented inappropriately the difference between NCM occupational capability requirements and those of officers.  It would be like someone calling an ACSO a Navigator, or an HRA or FSA a clerk...
 
S

stellarpanther

Guest
Good2Golf said:
The proper term to be used is MOSID.

Trade is an old term that was eliminated as it (and Occupation for officers) represented inappropriately the difference between NCM occupational capability requirements and those of officers.  It would be like someone calling an ACSO a Navigator, or an HRA or FSA a clerk...

Thanks for correcting me, I never knew we didn't use the term "trade' anymore. i'll mention when I'm in next because I still see it on official documents from time to time and no one is catching that.

 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
7,744
Points
1,360
Don’t get me wrong, people still use it, but it’s not correct.
 

dangerboy

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
663
Points
1,160
stellarpanther said:
What shouldn't be happening is HRA/FSA MWO's or WO's in some cases getting together to make their own arrangements as to who will do what tasks or having an FSA MWO saying to the HRA MWO that we are so short staffed that we can't keep up so the HRA's with a couple extra bodies start taking on some FSA duties.  If clothing stores had a shortage, they wouldn't make a deal with the an HRA section to have a couple HRA's start doing supply tasks.
you
Edit to say: My son just read what I said above and is saying that in a Reserve unit they would.  They do all kinds of stupid stuff like that according to him.  Sometimes he says it's hard to remember what your trade is when you go in on a Thursday night.

It happens in the regular force unit also. I have seen Infantry guys assigned to the Orderly room to assist the clerks, HRAs/FSAs. They might be just doing the easier tasks, photocopying, filing that sort of stuff leaving the qualified people to do the more important stuff. If they were not flexible then the troops admin would suffer and that is not acceptable.
 
Top