Heavier....applicants.

[Deleted member 15361]

Hey all,
    I have been looking through lots of threads on this board back to around jan 04 for many forums. One thing that I have found is that some members have a major disregard towards heavier soldiers. I am not saying that all overweight soldiers aren't lazy buggers but not all are. I personally am 6'3 and weigh in at 295 pounds. I can do 25 pushups 30 situps and do the run in 12.5 mins. While I know this is'nt stellar, it does surpass basic qualifications, and I would like to see some of the 140 pounders try to do a single push up with an exta 150 on their backs.
I did pass basic training and all pt tests there after.
I am not posting this to start an arguement or anything of the sort but just to help people to understand the fact that just because you carry around a few extra pounds does not make you lazy. I am also posting this for members or guests who are looking at these boards and are interested in joining the forces but are afraid because of their weight. It can be done so don't be discouraged because you hear someone say that its a disgrace that they let "fat" people in the military.
Cheers,
Rob.

 

[Patrolman]

There are exceptions to every rule, you are the exception to that rule based on what you have told us. Laziness comes packaged in all shapes and sizes. It is not that a fat person is lazy and a skinny person is not. Most people in the military would tell you based on their experiences heavy people generally have a hard time performing their duties. Skinny guys also have a hard time. There has to be a happy medium.
  Congratulations on your accomplishments so far and good luck in the future. Just remember it is not always about just meeting the standard. Strive to go beyond that,as most people can if they work towards it.

 

[Deleted member 15361]

Both responses are right on in my book. The reason I posted this thread is because after reading many threads not bashing but maybe making it sound like, if you are overweight you are not presentable to be in the uniform. I know that this might be a minority view but joining the military and going to basic is a scary step whether you admit it or not. I posted this to let the heavier people know that you are not going to be the only one on basic and you can do it. You do not have to be an olympic athlete to pass basic. Basic training is set up step by step. You don't have to run 2.4k you first day. You start off maybe doing a 10min jog and then increases a little bit everyday so that by the end of your basic you can pretty easily pass all of your fitness tests.
I suppose thats it, lol.
Good luck.
rob.

 

[scoutfinch]

I just started a reserve BMQ (instead of the IAP that I am supposed to be doing but that is a whole different story).  I am a long distance runner, having run half marathons in the past and currently training to run a full.  Needless to say, no one would rightly describe me as heavy.  That being said, I hardly have the upper body strength to meet what I consider are the physical requirements of the course.  I just spent almost $1000 on Friday on a personal trainer until the end of May just so that I can develop sufficient upper body strength to excel at my CAP and BOTC. 

Obviously, in my circumstances and in many others, physical appearances can be deceiving. 

 

[Hopkins]

Honestly, if you can do PT, I don't care what size anyone is...

But I read of a guy who couldn't do a pushup because his arms couldn't reach the ground because of his belly...So I hope no one here is that bad...

 

[Deleted member 15361]

lol thats hilarious. I had a girl on the alpha training group on basic who was like that.

 

[orange.paint]

Well you can't blame a guy for putting on extra pounds at leitrim.. I would personally shoot myself there.Anyhow the problem I would have is, do you look presentable in a military uniform?Does your 4 button down tend to fly off at a moments notice?

Alot of peoples problems is they lack knowledge.The CF has initiatives such as weight wellness members can attend,also you can see a nutritionist on base free of charge.Those members joining bring yourself up past the levels they set out for you

You don't have to run 2.4k you first day. You start off maybe doing a 10min jog and then increases a little bit everyday

Where the heck did you do basic? Applicants can get ready for atleast a 5km run which fits perfectly into the morning PT peroid 10 min streach 25 min(which is very slow for a 5km) run and then 15 min cooldown. No you will not be the only obese guy but do you really want to be the last guy in getting yelled at by instructors as your buddies hold push up position waiting for you? Other members will become very upset with you very quick.

As for former291er I'm 150 pounds, I can definatly ruck-up....and how would you know about a ruck?My girlfriend worked at leitrim and she sure didnt have one....or webbing...or helmet.

It is people like yourself who is destroying the CF. "Hey guys join if your fat and do the minimum." That's not on.Everyone need improvement and to tell a young recruit dont worry be fat,etc is weaking our force. Having said all this I have seen some larger guys who are in excellent shape, apperance is not everything.

Maybe someone will slip up one day and promote me....hahaha....minimum standard eh troop? > >

 

[Deleted member 15361]

Well you can't blame a guy for putting on extra pounds at leitrim.. I would personally shoot myself there.Anyhow the problem I would have is, do you look presentable in a military uniform?Does your 4 button down tend to fly off at a moments notice?

Alot of peoples problems is they lack knowledge.The CF has initiatives such as weight wellness members can attend,also you can see a nutritionist on base free of charge.Those members joining bring yourself up past the levels they set out for youWhere the heck did you do basic? Applicants can get ready for at least a 5km run which fits perfectly into the morning PT period 10 min streach 25 min(which is very slow for a 5km) run and then 15 min cooldown. No you will not be the only obese guy but do you really want to be the last guy in getting yelled at by instructors as your buddies hold push up position waiting for you? Other members will become very upset with you very quick.

As for former291er I'm 150 pounds, I can definatly ruck-up....and how would you know about a ruck?My girlfriend worked at leitrim and she sure didnt have one....or webbing...or helmet.

It is people like yourself who is destroying the CF. "Hey guys join if your fat and do the minimum." That's not on.Everyone need improvement and to tell a young recruit dont worry be fat,etc is wreaking our force. Having said all this I have seen some larger guys who are in excellent shape, apperance is not everything.

Maybe someone will slip up one day and promote me....hahaha....minimum standard eh troop? > >

Look man, as I say in a lot of my posts I'm not looking for Ethugs who like to go on boards talk and talk crap because their 1000km away from the people they are insulting. If you bothered to check my other posts you would know that I did 2 years in reserves infantry with many a ruck marches. And as you can see from my post I am not only doing the standard and am trying to better myself everyday at the gym. Being a soldier involves a lot more than "hey I can run 20km, hahaha", It takes intelligence, heart and determination. I may not be the best fit, but I make up for it with the rest. And my favorite saying I've ever heard on a military base is "I can lose the weight, can you lose the stupid?" And as far as, I'm destroying the cf. I can show you my performance reports from my military experience and they are all excellent.
Now stop being such a rude *******, its posts from combat arms people like yourself that give the completely intelligent and great guys in the trades a bad reputation, ie... meat heads, etc.
Now go look for the brass magnet soldier.
rob.

 

[orange.paint]

Well first of all Trades=support

support for whom? Combat arms.

Being a soldier involves a lot more than "hey I can run 20km, hahaha", It takes intelligence, heart and determination.

Apparently you have not partaken in a marathon..no planning/pacing/strategy (i.e intelligence) heart  or determination there.And as for comms research being a "smart trade....listening to dee dot dee dee dot Morse code all night can be done by monkeys.

I personally don't find my post at all rude....read again.

Well you can't blame a guy for putting on extra pounds at leitrim.. I would personally shoot myself there.Anyhow the problem I would have is, do you look presentable in a military uniform?Does your 4 button down tend to fly off at a moments notice?

A lot of peoples problems is they lack knowledge.The CF has initiatives such as weight wellness members can attend,also you can see a nutritionist on base free of charge.Those members joining bring yourself up past the levels they set out for youWhere the heck did you do basic? Applicants can get ready for at least a 5km run which fits perfectly into the morning PT period 10 min stretch 25 min(which is very slow for a 5km) run and then 15 min cooldown. No you will not be the only obese guy but do you really want to be the last guy in getting yelled at by instructors as your buddies hold push up position waiting for you? Other members will become very upset with you very quick.

As for former291er I'm 150 pounds, I can definitely ruck-up....and how would you know about a ruck?My girlfriend worked at leitrim and she sure didn't have one....or webbing...or helmet.

It is people like yourself who is destroying the CF. "Hey guys join if your fat and do the minimum." That's not on.Everyone need improvement and to tell a young recruit don't worry be fat,etc is destroying our force. Having said all this I have seen some larger guys who are in excellent shape, appearance is not everything.

Maybe someone will slip up one day and promote me....hahaha....minimum standard eh troop? > >

What is rude? Telling young recruits not to strive for the bottom strive for the top?
what would be rude

"Now stop being such a rude *******, its posts from combat arms people like yourself that give the completely intelligent and great guys in the trades a bad reputation, ie... meat heads, etc.
Now go look for the brass magnet soldier"

I'm actually continuing with post secondary while working in the regular force combat arms.I have every trade open to me but i like being a combat soldier.Personal preference.

You post on this website expecting everyone to agree with you that
"You don't have to run 2.4k you first day. You start off maybe doing a 10min jog and then increases a little bit everyday" And that being obese is alright? As for saying your destroying the cf per's like yourself are.Younger members will emulate you appearance.A young fit guy will show up and say "oh PT isn't important as long as I know how to type 35 words a minute in raven wing cfs leitrim im good to go." That's not correct leadership.

As for bettering yourself good job.Hopefully others who are a little obese will follow your example.

FIT TO FIGHT....but what do I know I'm not in the "trades" :

 

[Deleted member 15361]

Thanks for the response. Now I posted this to show guys that are afraid to join the forces because they aren't supermen when it comes to running pushups etc. I am not telling people to do the standard. I am saying that basic training is a step by step program. Maybe it has changed since I went through, but I doubt it. Over the 10 weeks they constantly build up the PT, not just 13Km ruck march, 10km run and 30 chinups in the first week, you build up to the march, longer runs, chinups etc. And just so you know, morse code is a very small part of Leitrim and its only there for newbs who come up to give them a chance to get used to their new surroundings. Leitrim involves many different parts that are need to know basis and security clearance level 3sa is required to know.
That being said, you are right, there are quite a few people up there that do dodge exercise and tours, but you can see that in any trade in the forces.
Your post pissed me off and I appologize if it offended you. What chance do we have if called to war if we can't even get along with fellow or soon to be members?
Rob.

 

[ZipperHead]

I have to take rcac_011's side on this one. One should show at Basic good to go. The military isn't a place to go to lose a few pounds. It's a place to go to learn how to serve your country. To encourage people to show up unprepared for the  REALITY that is basic training is a dis-service to all of those people here (myself included) who trained very hard BEFORE we ever set foot at the recruiting base (in my case, Cornwallis). Being in decent physical condition is the least you can do to prepare.

I think that the people who strive for, and accept, the bare minimum standard, in any facet, aren't worth having aboard. In any capacity. If a person can't be bothered to look after themselves physically, mentally or emotionally, I don't want them looking after my multi-million dollar equipment. If a person lets themselves go to the point that they are an embarrassment, and it is their OWN body, that they have to live with, why would I even let them look after a $1000 weapons system. Or radio. Or shovel. And I'm not just talking about a person being overweight. Not bothering to learn any more than is absolutely neccesary falls into this category.

I would like to think that you were trying to encourage people, but I found that it did nothing at all to encourage anybody but yourself. If you would have given a motivational "I was 295 pounds, and now I'm down to 210 pounds and I feel great!!!!!" that would be OK. But to me (and I'm sure, rcac_011) it sounds like you are making excuses.

And just so you know, I am 6'1 and there was a point where I "let myself go" to the point that I weighed 220 pounds, and I was disgusted with myself. I now weigh 190 pounds, can run over 20 kms in a go (which does require mental toughness, but I'm guessing that you wouldn't know what I'm talking about here.....), have carried rucksacks that weigh in excess of 100 lbs, operationally, have competed in 2 Mountain Man competitions, 2 Cabot Trail Relay Races, and I plan on running a marathon before I turn 40. Do I consider myself an Olympian for being able to do these things??? I think not. I consider myself a soldier, who is paid very good money by the taxpayers of Canada to be able to perform my job at a very high standard. And I would like to think that I am quite intelligent, even though I am only a combat arms soldier. And from the tone that I get from people like yourself, "former29whiner" (which is a play on the derogatory nickname that your former trade has), if you are overweight, you HAVE to be smart (to make up for not being completely fit) and if you are fit, you HAVE to be stupid (for not being lazy, and coming up with excuses to cover a personal failing).

I get very upset when I see how people can let themselves go, in particular miltary personnel, as I KNOW how difficult it is to maintain a high level of fitness. To take the easy way out and say "Hey, it's OK to be out of good physical conditioning!!!" is total bullshit. Make an effort that is worthy of the trust that Canadian people have put into you into "being all that you can be". It's the least you can do.

Al

 

[Deleted member 15361]

Thanks for the reply and congrats on the weight loss. I have never said in my post to do the bare minimum, not ONCE yet that's all i am hearing. When I finished basic in apr 01 I did 32 pushups 40 situps and made level 8 on the run. I could not do that when I first got to basic, very few people could. Its a new lifestyle and basic, as it says in the intro movies, etc, is an introduction into military life, which includes PT. I never once made an excuse in this whole thread, if the instructor told me to run 6 laps around the square in st. jean, I did it and no, I was not last, and no it was not all fat people behind me. It takes all kinds to make things work. Now I have definitely seen many fat lazy people but I have also seen many skinny lazy people, oh I hurt my foot but went to the mall all day after work just fine.
This is SUPPOSED to let people that if they put their mind to it they can be a soldier. I NEVER said just do 19 situps and pushups and hide in a corner for your career. People don't like overweight or heavier people fine, but don't judge my ability to do a job on it. And by the way did you ever watch Band of Brothers, the last episode who did captain winters call his best soldier.....Moose, the bigger and heavier guy, not because he could do more pushups or situps or run the fastest but because he was a great well rounded soldier.
I know its said that I even have to say things like this in the year 2006 but don't judge a book by its cover, I have never been called anything but a great soldier in my 5 years.

 

[ZipperHead]

Hey all,
    I have been looking through lots of threads on this board back to around jan 04 for many forums. One thing that I have found is that some members have a major disregard towards heavier soldiers. I am not saying that all overweight soldiers aren't lazy buggers but not all are. I personally am 6'3 and weigh in at 295 pounds. I can do 25 pushups 30 situps and do the run in 12.5 mins. While I know this is'nt stellar, it does surpass basic qualifications, and I would like to see some of the 140 pounders try to do a single push up with an exta 150 on their backs.
I did pass basic training and all pt tests there after.
I am not posting this to start an arguement or anything of the sort but just to help people to understand the fact that just because you carry around a few extra pounds does not make you lazy. I am also posting this for members or guests who are looking at these boards and are interested in joining the forces but are afraid because of their weight. It can be done so don't be discouraged because you hear someone say that its a disgrace that they let "fat" people in the military.
Cheers,
Rob.

Whether you said it, or implied it, the gist that I got was that all you HAVE to do is the minimum. And that it takes something special to be 295 pounds and being able to do the basic PT standard (because we all know that a 140 pound person just CAN'T do the pushups with an extra 150 pounds on their back...... as though all that extra weight would be placed squarely in the middle of one's back). Well done: you passed. You didn't once say that you were making an effort to improve, just that you did it, and achieved the standard, which if you were to read through the forum posts, the MAJORITY of the people here (those that are serving and consider themselves "fit to fight" soldiers) have stated that the minimum standard is an absolute joke, and needs to be improved upon to have an effective fighting force.

Your intent, again, may have been to motivate. Fine. I'm not sure what the target audience is though. Just so you know, I know rcac_011 (he worked under me in my troop here in Gagetown), and he wasn't always a lean, mean fighting machine. He isn't naturally thin and the like. He works HARD to be in the shape that he is in, and he has had to take a lot of ribbing by people be cause he has forced himself to "be all that he can be". I don't know his motivation (he isn't in my troop anymore, and I haven't ask him what motivates him: it is his own business), but he strives to be the best that he can be. Unfortunately, he hasn't had the best role models above him (the stereotypical "fat Sr NCO" is unfortunately too common), and he (in my mind, anyway) has decided that enough is enough, and he wants to set the example for other soldiers to follow. And I commend him for it.

Maybe you can understand why he and I don't like the message you are putting across: we have had to work hard to get in the shape that we are in, and haven't made excuses to get to where we are. Don't put out the message that you will slowly be brought into the shape you need to be in. The fact of the matter is this: if you show up for Basic Training out of shape, you have set yourself up for failure. Plain and simple. Can you overcome this obstacle? Sure. But do you want to have created a self-imposed obstacle before you ever started? Unlikely.

Here's MY message for all would be recruits: my understanding from reading the recruiting forum (when I see something that catches my interest) is that it takes a considerable amount of time to be enrolled. Use that time wisely and undertake an effective fitness regimen so that when you arrive for Basic training, it will be a piece of cake, instead of a struggle. Basic Training isn't supposed to replace Jenny Craig. Again, if you lack the discipline to maintain a healthy lifestyle, you likely lack the requisite discipline to be an effective soldier.

Al

 

[Deleted member 15361]

Thanks for the reply piper, i completely agree with you.
And I do appreciate the other posts, people can have thier opinions thats fine, but don't try and cut me up because I can only do 25 pushups right now or can only make the run in 12.5secs. I know guys in the forces that did so bad on the apptitude test that they could only join a select few trades, do I call them idiots because they can't score high enough to be officer? No I don't. I know guys who were in phenominal shape but failed out of QL3 because of failing test scores. Do I say their unfit to wear the uniform because they couldn't pass QL3 since I found it so easy. Absolutely not. As I said, it takes all kinds. All soldiers have strengths and weaknesses, thats why its not 1 person in a unit. Maybe you think only doing 25 pushups etc. is unacceptable, thats fine its your opinion. But where my weaknesses play into your strengths your weaknesses might play into my strengths, therefore, alone we are weak in our own ways but together we cover all fronts. And THAT is what I think the military is about.
My .02cents, for god's sake don't take it to heart.

 

[TCBF]

"lol thats hilarious. I had a girl on the alpha training group on basic who was like that."

- 'alpha training group'?  I taught in Cornwallis and St. Jean, and I have heard of no such thing.  Please explain.

 

[Deleted member 15361]

"lol thats hilarious. I had a girl on the alpha training group on basic who was like that."

- 'alpha training group'?  I taught in Cornwallis and St. Jean, and I have heard of no such thing.  Please explain.

Sorry bro, I was in 0104Bravo and she was in 0104Alpha so I call it bravo group and alpha group. Sorry if I made that unclear.
Cheers,
Rob.

 

[TCBF]

There is one other part that is unclear.  After all of the problems we had, they instituted a policy where recruits had to pass a PT test BEFORE arriving at the Recruit school - did she?

 

[ZipperHead]

Thanks for the reply piper, i completely agree with you.
And I do appreciate the other posts, people can have thier opinions thats fine, but don't try and cut me up because I can only do 25 pushups right now or can only make the run in 12.5secs. I know guys in the forces that did so bad on the apptitude test that they could only join a select few trades, do I call them idiots because they can't score high enough to be officer? No I don't. I know guys who were in phenominal shape but failed out of QL3 because of failing test scores. Do I say their unfit to wear the uniform because they couldn't pass QL3 since I found it so easy. Absolutely not. As I said, it takes all kinds. All soldiers have strengths and weaknesses, thats why its not 1 person in a unit. Maybe you think only doing 25 pushups etc. is unacceptable, thats fine its your opinion. But where my weaknesses play into your strengths your weaknesses might play into my strengths, therefore, alone we are weak in our own ways but together we cover all fronts. And THAT is what I think the military is about.
My .02cents, for god's sake don't take it to heart.

I'm not really sure where you are going with all of this (or coming from, for that matter). I haven't determined if this post was split from another forum, but if it wasn't, you started the whole post. For what reason, again, I'm not sure, other than to possibly motivate someone.

If someone thinks that it is acceptable to look like 10 pounds of shite in a 5 pound bag, and be in uniform while looking like it, well, I'm sorry, but that doesn't cut it with me. Looks aren't everything, but they certainly tell a lot about a person. And you certainly do seem to revel in the fact that you have something over stupid people (those that couldn't pass QL3). Well, on that we share something: I don't like stupid people any more than I care for grossly obese people. The problem is that stupid people usually can't do anything about it, but obese people can. People who are dumb for the sake of being dumb (no inclination to improve their education on a given subject) fall into the same category of many people that are overweight: too lazy to make a change.

I agree that the military is about teamwork, but again, if someone can't be bothered to improve themselves (physically or intellectually) and are willing to coast along, well, I don't want them on my team. The military isn't designed to make people feel good about themselves ("Look at me mommy!! I made it into the army! Aren't you proud of your little baby!!!"). It's about the defence of the nation. Have we excluded brilliant people who just weren't in the shape required to put on the uniform, carry the load, and kill the enemy. Yes, most certainly. Is that wrong? I don't think so. We're not a social program, we're a fighting force. And that includes being in fighting form. Which, in my opinion, isn't reflected in the low standards that we have set for physical fitness. And don't even get me started on the lame ass 60% standard for PO checks (so someone can basically forget, or never bother to learn 40% of what they need to know?? Now THAT'S brilliant thinking).

Al

 

[Deleted member 15361]

I'm not really sure where you are going with all of this (or coming from, for that matter). I haven't determined if this post was split from another forum, but if it wasn't, you started the whole post. For what reason, again, I'm not sure, other than to possibly motivate someone.

If someone thinks that it is acceptable to look like 10 pounds of shite in a 5 pound bag, and be in uniform while looking like it, well, I'm sorry, but that doesn't cut it with me. Looks aren't everything, but they certainly tell a lot about a person. And you certainly do seem to revel in the fact that you have something over stupid people (those that couldn't pass QL3). Well, on that we share something: I don't like stupid people any more than I care for grossly obese people. The problem is that stupid people usually can't do anything about it, but obese people can. People who are dumb for the sake of being dumb (no inclination to improve their education on a given subject) fall into the same category of many people that are overweight: too lazy to make a change.

I agree that the military is about teamwork, but again, if someone can't be bothered to improve themselves (physically or intellectually) and are willing to coast along, well, I don't want them on my team. The military isn't designed to make people feel good about themselves ("Look at me mommy!! I made it into the army! Aren't you proud of your little baby!!!"). It's about the defence of the nation. Have we excluded brilliant people who just weren't in the shape required to put on the uniform, carry the load, and kill the enemy. Yes, most certainly. Is that wrong? I don't think so. We're not a social program, we're a fighting force. And that includes being in fighting form. Which, in my opinion, isn't reflected in the low standards that we have set for physical fitness. And don't even get me started on the lame *** 60% standard for PO checks (so someone can basically forget, or never bother to learn 40% of what they need to know?? Now THAT'S brilliant thinking).

Al

I can agree with this post, mostly. But you try to make it sound like I just sit here eating nachos. If you read up you can see that I go to the gym everyday to better myself, to get 1 more pushup everday to cut 10 secs off of my run. I really don't want this thread to turn into a big argument about who makes a better soldier skinny vs fat and so on. As the title says Heavier Applicants, I just put this here to show the guys that okay you can't do 30 pushups right now but with dedication and practice, by the time your finished of basic you'll be flying through the run, pushups and situps like there's no tomorrow.
And I do consider myself to be smart, far from real smart, but smart none the less, lol. But I never cut someone up because I did better on a test than they did, I usually offered help if I could. And to be honest, it wasn't until I posted this thread to people that never worked with me that I ever got shite on for pt.
And as for wanting the standards to be hired, you will lose 1000s of people from pt and 1000s of people for apptitude, but this is not for us to decide.

 

[Deleted member 15361]

There is one other part that is unclear.  After all of the problems we had, they instituted a policy where recruits had to pass a PT test BEFORE arriving at the Recruit school - did she?

Sorry, I replied to this but it didn't come up. I have no Idea how she got through the process, she must have known the guy or something. However she was not the only one. There was a guy on bravo that couldn't do his pushups OR situps and didn't pass his pt until week 10, 1 day before grad. She ended up failing out.