Help >.. Restricted and prohbited weapons

[1feral1]

Is a Shotgun with a pistol grip a restricted weapon?

Hey Future Unknown,

If I remember (as of 12-94, but things may have changed?) correctly, no bullpup pump shotguns, as for pistol grips, one has to remember the overall length regulation, but instead of just a PG at the butt end, why not a folding stock. I had an Rem 870P folder w/18" bbl, carried it everywhere in the bush, never a problem. Best to ring a reputable dealer like John Hipwell from Wolverine in Virden MB. He'll know the answers for ya. John is a good bloke, I have know him for going on 20 yrs now. A top dealer at that too, and he might even sell ya something, or will know where to get it.

I would not bother ringing the police, as they won't know, or/and will not commit to a positive answer (no stereotyping intended - I fully support the police in most circumstances), same goes with that mob in Miramachi, you'll end up speaking to a cluless female (no disrespect intended either) who'll quote some manual, or put you on hold as she speaks to her 'team leader'.

Hope this helps you out.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

This is the gun in question the Winchester Defender

http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976487486-1.jpg

With the recent spree of bear attacks and the fact that my uncle was attacked by a bear in the area that we frequently camp it has become nessecary to bring a firearm and my .22 just doesn't cut it anymore

 

[KevinB]

"restricted firearm" means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm

and

"prohibited firearm" means

(a) a handgun that

(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or

(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,

but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,

(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,

(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or

(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,

(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or

(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;

_____________________________________________________

In Summation
Nothing wrong with a pistol grip on the shotgun provided
The OAL of the Firearm is over 660mm (~26")

I have a 14" Remington 870 - you cannot a pistol grip on it since it will then drop below the 660mm OAL length issue (for non restricted)
Since you need Non-restricted for walking around with I won't get into the other issues with restrcited shotguns etc...

 

[Fry]

I would talk to your local wildlife office, because we were told that shotguns with pistol grips were prohibited weapons, because they can be easily concealed. The weapon in question was a pump action 410.

I didn't think it was prohibited, but they said that all non-restricted firearms are supposed to be a certain length, hence the barrel length and stock, because they can't be concealed easily.

I know in this case, the stock wasn't sawed off, but I doubt the "proper" pistol grip would matter, because concealment is concealment.


Don't solely rely on advice on this site regarding this matter though, speak to the authorities. Talk to your local Dept of Wildlife. Hell, if you can't get an answer there, which I doubt, call the Dept of Justice.

 

[paracowboy]

toldja, he'd be along.
Fry, I do believe Kev just posted the info from the official site.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of a shotgun without a stock, except for certain specific tasks. Personally, I'd think you'd be better off with a buttstock on that scattergun. And, I'd suggest you'd be better off with a sling for it, also. And if you're gonna bring one gun, but have more than two people in the party, well, you may just want to bring more guns.

I figure two guns person is a good ratio.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

457 mm barrel Length but if it has to be over 660mm overall I don't think we'll clear it eh?
I don't see a reason why we couldn't just borrow an unrestricted which we are licensed for, I'd rather be able to aim should the need arise anyway.

 

[Fry]

Yup, I know that's the info from the official site. That's why I called and inquired, because someone told me the same thing they told me.

If the barrel is shorter than 660mm or whatever, then it's restricted also.

 

[KevinB]

Basically IF you have a 18" or greater barrel you will be Good To Go with a pistol grip.
- The only thing I find a pistol grip good for is a small masterkey -

I posted directly from the CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA

As alluded to before most people serving in an official position know jack and chit   about firearms laws.

IF you have a shotgun that is below 26" AOL - you have most likely a PROHIBITED FIREARM (and your in chit...)
 If it is registered as a restricted weapon then you are okay for under the 660mm - but then it is a range only firearm.

 

[Fry]

One thing not mentioned, shell capacity. There is a restriction on shell capacity. 3 shells total I do believe. Don't quote me on that. I will go get my firearms PAL course book.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

isn't the 3 shell rule for hunting?
and the shotguns plugged anyway

 

[Fry]

Unless you're at the range with a license for restricted, 3 shells is the max. Same for centrefire rifles. Rimfire doesn't apply.

Just check with the proper authorities, don't rely on answers from here, credible or not. If for some reason you get busted for having that, you can't say... well some dude on army.ca said it was ok....


Also, you have to have your possession and acquisition license on you at ALL times. That is federal. Not sure what your provincial laws are, but here in Newfoundland, you also have to be carrying a hunter ID card. Crapola, I know, but oh well.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Plan B was a 4/10  / .22 overunder but I don't like a break-action single shot if the chit hits the fan,
I could bring a full sized rifle but I'm guessing that if I get in a situation I need to use it I'll be in no condition to aim.

 

[Fry]

A 22 is more powerful than what a lot of people think. I've seen a moose taken down with one shot, believe it or not. But, seriously, just go check out the situation with the proper authorities.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Ok after hours of searching I found out that the Defender with the pistol grip is 28 inches, which according to kevin is just long enough to be used as a un restricted bear buster, thanks for all the reply's.

 

[KevinB]

Not according to me...

According the the Canadian Criminal Code, as posted by me  ;D

Have a good one

 

[TCBF]

Fry,

Go to

www.canadiangunnutz.com

and have a ball.

"Unless you're at the range with a license for restricted, 3 shells is the max. Same for centrefire rifles. Rimfire doesn't apply."

- Not so.  Don't ask Wildlife Officers anything about gun laws.  They don't know Salt from Shinola.

Go to Gunnutz, or the CFC website, or even the NFA.

Tom

 

[1feral1]

I would talk to your local wildlife office, because we were told that shotguns with pistol grips were prohibited weapons, because they can be easily concealed. The weapon in question was a pump action 410.

Fry your wildlife officer is WRONG, what do they know about federal firearms regs? Rumours and 'gee, i think so' stuff. Plus remember, they will put on an anti-firearms front, especially if they are IGNORANT to the true facts. As for hunting and other wildlife regs, yes ask away, he is the right guy there.

Ther is NO max mag capacity for pump SG's and bolt-action/repeating rifles federally, however, during hunting season, say for geese etc (Sask) a plug has to be in the SG mag to hold 2rds, and one up the spout for a max of 3. Get caught without a plug in your mag, and your stuffed! It too is possible that provincially in Canada there might be mag restrictions for centre fire bots/repeaters. This I dopp not know, as in Sask there was not teh last time I went hunting. Its 5rds for all SA rilfes, less rimfire and M1 Garands federally, but that we know already.

Kevin is spot on, andknows exactly what he is talking about, no doubt there one single bit.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Fry]

It still doesn't hurt to contact the authorities on the matter. Call the firearms centre in Miramachi, NB. You can't tell  me they're wrong too.

As for the sawed off 410, it is a prohibited weapon because it was altered. It even says "sawed-off" in the firearms book that I have. This book was used in a course that was made mandatory to obtain a PAL, and it is only a few years old.


And well, if you're looking for protection against bears, you really should have a gun with a stock, you can aim much better. I would recommend a rifle, 270 or greater for protection. Just opinion.

 

[redleafjumper]

Fry, Wesley and Kevin are, as usual, correct in these firearm matters.  I advise you against relying on what police or Conservation Officers think they know about Canadian firearm law. In my experience with such matters very few are up to speed on the nuances of the law and the regulations that arise from the Firearm Act.  Peruse the Firearm Act, check out the canadiangunnutz web site and the NFA site www.nfa.ca.
The Canadian Firearms Centre also has information and interpretations on their web site. 

Firearm law in Canada is complex and mistakes in interpretation of it are common.

And yes, the firearm centre in Mirimachi has, from time to time, been wrong.

As for your point about protection from predatory wildlife, a field that I also have some knowledge of, a rifle with a scope is not as a good choice as a defensive firearm - it is a much better offensive or hunting firearm.  A good choice for defence is a 12 ga pump shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 are my preferred choices) loaded with slugs, not buckshot.  The slug gun should be capable of holding at least 5 shots, when you aren't hunting, capacity is unlimited on pump shotguns.  (But don't believe me, check the criminal code, Firearm Act and regulations arising.)  You might find the rules about factory made barrels for non-semiautomatic actions interesting.  Owner altered barrels are a no-no, but a factory barrel for a slug gun even a very short one is okay, depending on its impact on overall length.

 

[KevinB]

FRY - fully stop.

Your course book has ZERO legal standing, the Criminal Code is the LAW - PERIOD...

Shotgun barrel length, with a non-semiautomatic gun the barrel can be any factory length and still be non restricted as long as the OAL of the firearm is over 660mm.
  Sawed off is misnomer, you cannot legally cut one yourself, under 457mm - but a someone with a firemas business license and manufacturing on their license can.


readleaf - excellent advice