Help >.. Restricted and prohbited weapons

[Fry]

I didn't think they'd teach bogus material. Oh, I didn't say a rifle with a scope would be a good defensive weapon, I said a rifle. Lever action or semi-auto.

Like I said, I am in no way positive on what is right or wrong, only going by what I was told. What else am I to do? These people at least claim to be authorities on the matter, so the thoughts of them relaying false/incorrect information didn't even cross my mind. As for going with slugs in the pump shotgun, I'd still recommend a 270 or higher calibre with lever action, preferably semi-auto.

As for protection from wildlife, I have loads of experience on, almost 20 years, not to mention my father and grand-father's information. As with regard to bears, I can only offer informration regarding the Black Bear, since we don't have brown/grizzlies/polar bears here.

I appreciate this thread greatly. Just one question, what authority would be the one to talk to if I ever had a firearms problem in the future?

 

[MOOO!]

This is a fair site to read on some of the laws that we use now.  Don't get me wrong there is way too much confusion as a weapon owner, but thanks to the RCMP crash of 1995 i became a prohibited weapon owner (when they updated what is a prohibited weapon list, I owned one that was on the new list and became grandfathered).  http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/pol-leg/FireArmsAct_e.asp ( sorry my link didn't work, but the page info is here)

 

[redleafjumper]

If you have a problem with firearms law, a very good source for information is the NFA.  The website www.nfa.ca has contact information.
Usually they will provide helpful case law to persons experiencing legal problems with Canadian firearm law.  But as for authorities, the only authority is the law and the regulations that arise from it.  Your FSET Instructor(s) may not have been wrong, they may have been giving you simplified information based on how the CFC interprets the law.

Regarding using a rifle for bear protection there are some points that you might want to consider:

a.  Action reliability.  If it works 100% of the time in difficult circumstances, fine. 
b.  Ammunition choice.  For the big critters we have out west, .270 is a bit light for defence at close range.
c.  Sight choices.  Scopes are not as fast to acquire as open sights for most shooters.
d.  Weight and relative handiness.  If you aren't carrying it, it isn't much use.  If it is tied to your pack it isn't much use.  What else you have to carry is also a concern.  If it is too long you won't bring it up in time.
e.  The nature of the threat that you expect to encounter.  For cougars, or even bear in close bush, better also wear a good sheath knife because your rifle won't get a chance to be used.  It will be out of your hands very quickly.
f.  Frequent practice with the firearm.

For these reasons, and depending on what I am doing, my choice for a defensive firearm is usually a 12 gauge shotgun with 3" magnum slugs, or a .44 or larger caliber magnum revolver for applications with the appropriate permit.  Some shotguns are less reliable than others; for this reason, I am not a fan of the Winchester defender for bear defence - it just doesn't handle the 3" magnum slugs as well.  The Winchester 870 is a great choice, but while very reliable is a little heavy, so I like the Mossberg 500 with a folding stock.  If you are using a folding stock it is critical to practice shooting it at close range targets with the stock folded while a buddy pours ice water down your back (or some other such distraction.)

Those are my thoughts on the matter, but you may also want to consult the works of writers on the topic of wildlife attacks such as James Gary Shelton and Stephen Herraro.  I have had some close calls with bears as have friends that I hunt with.  A few years ago one of my hunting buddies had the misfortune to be looking for moose when he was charged at close range (30 yards or so) by a sow grizzly and two mature cubs.

His .270 rifle misfed while he was loading it, but fortunately the three bears went right past him in their first charge.  It is probably lucky for him that he couldn't get a shot off, because if he had, there was no time for two and he would likely have been dealing with one wounded bear and two angry unwounded ones.  As it was, he was shaking so hard that when he tried to clear the jam that he dropped cartridges and only had two rounds loaded when they came back and this time veered away for good.  When he isn't hunting, and carries a firearms for bear protection, he now uses a Mossberg 500 Stainless Mariner with a lightened synthetic stock.  And, he practices loading and shooting under stress.

 

[paracowboy]

a.  Action reliability.  If it works 100% of the time in difficult circumstances, fine.  
b.  Ammunition choice.  For the big critters we have out west, .270 is a bit light for defence at close range.
c.  Sight choices.  Scopes are not as fast to acquire as open sights for most shooters.
d.  Weight and relative handiness.  If you aren't carrying it, it isn't much use.  If it is tied to your pack it isn't much use.  What else you have to carry is also a concern.  If it is too long
e.  The nature of the threat that you expect to encounter.  For cougars, or even bear in close bush, better also wear a good sheath knife because your rifle won't get a chance to be used.  It will be out of your hands very quickly.
f.  Frequent practice with the firearm.

For these reasons, and depending on what I am doing, my choice for a defensive firearm is usually a 12 gauge shotgun with 3" magnum slugs, or a .44 or larger caliber magnum revolver for applications with the appropriate permit.  Some shotguns are less reliable than others; for this reason, I am not a fan of the Winchester defender for bear defence - it just doesn't handle the 3" magnum slugs as well.  The Winchester 870 is a great choice, but while very reliable is a little heavy, so I like the Mossberg 500 with a folding stock.  If you are using a folding stock it is critical to practice shooting it at close range targets with the stock folded while a buddy pours ice water down your back (or some other such distraction.)

Those are my thoughts on the matter

mine too.

 

[Fry]

Handguns can't be used for protection, because federally, they are only allowed to be carried to and from your registered rod and gun club, and only to be fired there. That, I know.

As to regards for the permit for the handgun, I'm not quite sure on that... but I'm doubting that you'll be given a permit which lets you carry a concealed restricted weapon in the woods.

As for the folding stock, the weapon can't be shorter than 660mm when the stock is folded, or legally you can't fire it.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/faq/default_e.asp#a3

rifles and shotguns that can be fired when their overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping or other means to less than 660 mm (about 26 inches);

 

[redleafjumper]

Fry, with respect you don't know.  Like many others, I have what is called an ATT (Authorization to transport) and an ATC (Authorization to Carry) to carry a specific handgun for protection while working in the activity of prospecting.  The ATC requires that the firearm be carried in plain sight.    Please look things up before making sweeping generalizations.  They are federal permits and there is a cost associated with them.  You are correct that when folded the length cannot be shorter than 660mm, or just a shade over two feet long - seems pretty handy to me - I sure like mine!

 

[Fry]

I stand corrected. Thank-You for enlightening me.


If I had to select a handgun for protection from big game, I wouldn't chose a revolver though.

 

[redleafjumper]

Fry, I certainly agree that a revolver is not the best choice.  In some circumstances; however, it may well be the only option, and it sure beats using your fingers or a walking stick!  Handguns are commonly used for hunting in some jurisdictions (not Canada, as far as I am aware) and I have seen accounts of even the mighty Cape Buffalo falling to the .454 Casull.  Pretty ballsy hunting in my opinion, but when you consider that our ancestors were using sticks and stones it doesn't seem so bad.

Some suggest filing off the front sight of most handguns (anything without a "4" or larger as the first letter in the calibre)  used for bear defence so the barrel doesn't hurt so much when the grizzly inserts it into your colon.

 

[Fry]

Yeah, true. A semi-auto would be my choice for a handgun, over a revolver.

Regarding Canada's gun laws. They SUCK. I hate them. Hell, we can't do/own jack shyte. This gun registry program is also a total and complete waste of money. It's Canada's gun laws that makes me want to become a dual citizen and buy a house in the USA.

 

[Fry]

Get this, up until a few years ago, .22 rifles were prohibited (for hunting) in the island part of the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. What sense does that make?

Didn't stop many around here though ;D

For such a little bullet, the ammo is so cheap and plentiful. I love the .22 Nylon that's downstairs. Dandy little gun indeed.