hey Kev do you have one of these? ;)

[KevinB]

Killer Jr - Arty rounds with VT fuzes fired direct

I have tried the 12ga Flechette and 40MM versions -- I agree with Pappy they dont have the needed velocity - they just porcupine targets - and get the guy really mad (no I did not shoot anyone to test this theory - a LE dept did it for me  )

5.56mm ammo - especially in the Mk262 and Mk264 77gr flavours has about the best close in terminal effect of any LandWarfare legal round (155gr or 178gr AMAX 7.62 would be nice - but the JAG would string me up) 12ga is not a good CQB choice and as such having a team medic as the dedicated breacher with a 870 Shorty to be a good choice - and ONLY with 12ga Breaching Rounds (contact your local Ski Team rep  ) 

 

[pappy]

hummm the Navy/ DOD JAG ruled it ok for US Marines (this was in reference to FAST teams and S/S, not sure they intended for everyone to use them, thier point was taking out tangos was more "law-enforcement" rather then "law warfare") to use HP pistol ammo on Tangos, as well as the Seirra MatchKings and the like in various loadings, been away a lil while not sure about the AMAX.... But I'd tend to say they'd be ok two since the civvy Police forces use them so there would be some legal standing... 

take a looksie at the Sierra GameKings, that one I think would get someone shooting on record a interesting entry on Page Eleven.  Can you say "gapping exit wound", I know you could... (.224 55gr HPBT & the .308 165gr HPBT) now these ain't your typical soft-point hunting bullets, crack open a box and take a gander at the niffty HP. 

But the ployimer tip uints are the trick these days, more reliable feeding in a semi-auto / full auto.

Not sure why all the PC about what the military uses in bullet design, last I check the end purpose was killing the enemy.  let's not start a long discussion about the Gen. Conv.

being a bit cranky tonight I'd say we start lubing our bullets with pig fat, and send  videos of it to Osama and his Al Q aboys... don't they have a thing againest Swine?
Opps I know I'm not being sensitive and showing compassion...

you know if they made an alarm clock with the sound of impacting arty... that wold be a seller... a sound one never forgets

Arty rules, well except for B52 arclights  hehe, buddy of mine was at Khe Sanh when the arclight strikes took out give or take 10,000 NVA Regulars in a matter of days.  I'm sure hes wishing we did more of that in A-stan since it was his nephew that was the LT in charge of SEAL team 10 that was shot down last week.  I'll be heading back the Arlington NC with him to bury Micheal, hence my crankyness these days...

kinda a small world, my nephew just got rotated back to CONUS from the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment that was taking them in...

 

[KevinB]

Pappy - certain units that have a Anti-Terrorist role are allowed to use expanding rounds and are not bound by the Hague Convention.

However conventional forces are bound while engaged in land warfare duties.  The US JAG has ruled the ploymer tip bullets are designed for expansion and thus not legal for unrestricted landwarfare usage.  The Sierra Matchking however the hollowpoint is part of a manufacturing process and the hollowpoint is not a source of expansion - thus it is not designed to create greater wounding or unnecessary suffering.  The BTHP rounds (in 5.56mm) act like most normal BT bullets in that they yaw in tissue and when the stresses on them are great enough (2500-2700fps + for M855/C77) they fragment typically at the cannelure and have an explosive wound - since the Mk262 and Mk264 are BTHP that act like FMJBT (M855/C77/SS109) rounds they are deemed legal for unrestricted landwarfare usage (same with the 168gr and 175gr SMK's in 7.62mm)  Thus the 77gr rounds are about the most effective small arms round available for landwarfare usage (as well due to the lenght of the heavier rounds they fragement down to lower velocities - again not a manufactured design)

Pistol ammuntion is different and we are stuck with non expanding rounds that do damage from crush of tissue.

The GameKing and other soft point rifle rounds are not nearly as effective as the fragementing rounds since they only cause damage from tissue crush along the projectile path


RIP on your buddy's nephew