Hey - We are hearing that Canada is/are DESTROYING over 67,000 FNC1 and FNC2s

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Time to offer a contrary opinion, just to see...

Stuff that's been in war stocks has generally received no preventative maintenance whatsoever.  By way of example, some bright spark floated the idea of bringing towed 155mm guns out of war stock, modifying them, and then issuing them.  The guns were found to be in such bad shape that this wasn't an option and they were disposed of instead.

So, what about the FN, which I loved when it was issued?

1.  The rifles are all old - very old.
2.  They use a calibre of ammunition that is no longer standard for rifles within most (albeit not all) NATO countries.
3.  They can't be sold on the open market in Canada due to legal restrictions (I'm not going there).
4.  Most, if not all, are likely to be in bad shape, not having been maintained for 15 - 20 years.
5.  The GoC is unlikely to sell the rifles overseas due to concerns with the trade in small arms (we sell C-7s to NATO countries, but that's a different story).
6.  We have plenty of C-7s in war stocks due to reductions to the CF in the mid-90s.

What to do?  Personally, and I don't like it much either, I think that destruction is the final option...  If anyone has any other ideas, fire away....

TR

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Melt them down and turn them into statues?  ;D

 

[Britney Spears]

I should also add that storing them probably isn't "free" either. You have to store it soehwere, and that place has to be guarded, maintained, and are otherwise an administrative burden.

Deactivate them and use them for bayonet training and cadet drill?

 

[redleafjumper]

Up until the early '90s the FN C1 A1 and also FN DP rifles were issued to cadet corps (along with No. 7 and No. 4 Lee Enfield .303 rifles) where they were used for drill, small arms training and marksmanship.  They would still be great in that role.  It is a real shame to hear that these rifles have been allowed to get into poor shape (at least some of them) and now will be destroyed.  As for not being able to sell them in Canada there are some of us who are eligible collectors of those items and would be able to legally purchase them.

 

[TCBF]

I first fired the Rifle, 7.62mm, Fn C1A1 in 1971.  I was 16.  I eventually fired both it and the LAR 7.62mm FN C2A1 in competition.  I currently own - legally - two FN C1A1s (both 8Ls) and three Australian L1A1s.
The second rifle my son fired - at the age of ten - was an FN C1A1 (the first was his mother's favourite rifle, a Mini 14).  

Sad that they are going?  Yes, but nothing lasts forever.  Odd, that the Long Branch Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1* has outlasted it in some respects.  But, when you look at the cost of refurbishment vice the cost of standardizing on the new wpns only, it makes sense.  

The sad thing is, they cannot be made available to Canadian collectors.  You can buy ChiCom M14s, but not Canadian FNs.  Once Herb Gray, Landslide Annie and their ilk have their way, only cops and criminals will have guns.  Watch the crime rate go through the roof then.  Another nail in the coffin of democracy.

Tom

 

[redleafjumper]

TCBF, my experience is similar, I first fired the FN in 1975 and fell in love with it immediately.  I now own 5, 1 - 8L, 1-IA1, 1 - Aussie L1A1, 1 - Brit L1A1 and an Israeli-Belgian one.  (I think that's all...).  The government still issues the No. 4 to the Canadian Rangers, which gives the Lee 
Enfield an enviable time-in-service record.  It would be great to own one or more of these fine pieces of Canadian history; it is a crying shame that these grand old firearms are being scrapped.

 

[baboon6]

Just wondering , do the Brit's still have their FN rifles, i think the proper name was SLR L1A1 rifle, correct me if I'm' wrong. The Brit's would have a large number of these rifles in storage, after adopting the SA 85 rifle, if i remember their rifles had plastic furniture as compared to our wooden stocks, etc.

A whole bunch were given to Sierra Leone 4-5 years ago, so I assume the rest are still in storage.

 

[geo]

SA85???? don't you mean SA80???

FWIW, they can certainly melt down every last one of the C2s... no great loss - the C9 AND the C6 are great improvements.
After having 1st fired a C1 in 1970, have always enjoyed the sheer solid weight & punch provided by it. The disk sight "encouraged" everyone to apply themselves in marksmanship principles and we appeared to be much better shooters back then...... (anyone get the hint )
I mourn it's passing but, when you get down to it - what are the circumstances that would be required to bring em out of storage?... and who would they be issued to?... front line troops would never get to see em again.

 

[NavyShooter]

The Brits thinned their ranks of some of their L1A1's back in the early '90s.  I know, I have one of the rifles in my safe at home.  (Legally)

NS

 

[Bomber]

What Britney says is true, storing them was more than they were worth, plus they were just in racks, not grease or nothing and when they did the sample QA survey on them, they found that the rifles were toast, not worth hanging onto.  It isn't like in a time of war we are going to have 60 000 people line up to join, expecting rifles.

 

[Jim_Steed]

Looking for pictures of a FNC1. Jim

 

[TCBF]

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1300/1324.htm

 

[Da_man]

thats sad

 

[1feral1]

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1300/1324.htm

Nice pic, but who ever told these guys they were issued to the troops in 1954 and 55 is wrong.

Although Canada was the first to adopt and mass produce this pattern of rifle, it was not until Dec 1956, and most rifles were starting to be made after Jan 1957. Many Militia units did not get them until the mid 1960's. CAL made the C1, C2 and the SMG c1 until 1968, while SAF at Lithgow, Australia made the L1A1 rifle until 1988.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[geo]

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1300/1324.htm

As Wes has indicated - nice picture BUT..... not 100% FNC1.... it is an FN but not C1.
If you look at the body cover - covers the complete receiver - the C1 body cover only covered 1/2 the receiver, had a mag charger sllot for the ammo clips AND left the breach block carrier exposed - making it a lot easier to clear Jams and quickly do your IAs

Looking at the rear sight - not a folding disk rear sight - looks more like the Brit L1A1
Looking at the flash supressor - wrong one - should be slotted tube type.
Looking at the carrying handle - looks like our carrying handle - Brit one was circular with groves.

Nope - not a C1

IMHO

 

[Danjanou]

Anyone else catch this:
"first issued to the Airborne during the Suez Crisis, then to regular and reserve units starting in 1954-55."

I may be having a mess tin moment but the only Suez Crisis I'm aware of happened in 1956. Besides last time I checked the Canadian Airborne Regiment came into being circa 1968.

Anyway I think these fit the bill. (my google-fu is strong tonight)

 

[geo]

Anyone else catch this:
"first issued to the Airborne during the Suez Crisis, then to regular and reserve units starting in 1954-55."

I may be having a mess tin moment but the only Suez Crisis I'm aware of happened in 1956. Besides last time I checked the Canadian Airborne Regiment came into being circa 1968.

For what it's worth, I remember being at the R22Rs museum at the Citadelle and they had on hand an FN 49 (egyptian)...

1st transport of troops to UNEF was 15 Nov 1956
with respect to the Paras......
the CARs genealogy as per their website (http://www.commando.org/history.php)
1 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion, 1942-45
2 First Special Service Force (Devil's Brigade), 1942-44
3 Canadian Special Air Service Company, 1947-49
4 Mobile Strike Force, 1948-58
5 Defence of Canada Force, 1958-68
6 Canadian Airborne Regiment, 1968-95
7 Joint Task Force II, 1993-Present
8 Three independent parachute companies within light infantry battalions, 1995-Present

 

[TCBF]

Of my three Lithgows, I think the oldest is 62 and the youngest is`69 or so.

Of course, for a lot of us dinosoars, the first rifle we jumped with was the Ex 1.  Where was it made?

Tom

 

[Old Sweat]

Canada had purchased a number of FNs offshore for trials. These were used at the Airborne School in Rivers (I jumped with one of these in 1968) for training purposes. The earliest I have heard of our troops using the FNC1 was 2 RCR on a winter exercise in early 1958, but I stand to be corrected.

My recruit troop in the RCA Depot was the first to not be issued Lee-Enfields. We started training in January 1958.

 

[redleafjumper]

A great reference on the FN rifles is:  The FAL Rifle Classic Edition from Collector Grade Publications.  It has the story of all the FN rifles, at least up to 1993.