High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[Altair]

There is a lot to be said for a company just doing what they know, do right, and stay in their own lanes....

I agree. Freight rail is their bread and butter and they/we Canadians do it well.

But lets not point to them and say their lack of interest in HSR has any bearing on the success of failure of the venture.

 

[ytz]

You even blamed VIAs problems on organizations that have nothing to do with VIA.

VIA's problems have nothing to do with the freight companies?

Didn't feel that way when my last train was trundling along at 80 kph stuck behind a freight train or the time we sat for 30 mins watching a freight train crawl past.

 

[ytz]

There is a lot to be said for a company just doing what they know, do right, and stay in their own lanes....

Yeah. Which is exactly why the assertion that they should have been included in this project is absurd.

And like I said, it was an open bid. They chose not to bid. But now this is being spun as some nefarious exclusion.

I will say this. Compare the big banks in Canada to freight rail companies. The banks are globally competitive and go out and expand despite their protected market at home. CN and CP are like Bell, Rogers and Telus. They know they have zero ability to compete without protection. That's why they don't try.

 

[Altair]

VIA's problems have nothing to do with the freight companies?

Didn't feel that way when my last train was trundling along at 80 kph stuck behind a freight train or the time we sat for 30 mins watching a freight train crawl past.

The fact VIA pays CN for this while being forced to use diesel trains is a tragedy.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

VIA's problems have nothing to do with the freight companies?

Didn't feel that way when my last train was trundling along at 80 kph stuck behind a freight train or the time we sat for 30 mins watching a freight train crawl past.

You can read Govt committee notes about what the Govt has to say about the issue you brought up:

6. PIC - Passenger Prioritization

LOCATION: National ISSUE/SOURCE: Prioritizing VIA Rail to improve on-time performance DATE: September 2024

tc.canada.ca

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The fact VIA pays CN for this while being forced to use diesel trains is a tragedy.

The Govt didn't want CN Rail. It was the Chretien Govt who privatized them. You can also read the CN Commercialization Act for all the info you need.

Gives up control of organization they systematically ran in to ground then has audacity to complain about how organization they no longer control now runs. ...

My Father worked for CN in the 70s when it was a Crown Corporation. It wasn't all roses before the big bad wolves from Wall Street took over... it was peak Govt inefficiency and ineptitude.

 

[FSTO]

Yeah. Which is exactly why the assertion that they should have been included in this project is absurd.

And like I said, it was an open bid. They chose not to bid. But now this is being spun as some nefarious exclusion.

I will say this. Compare the big banks in Canada to freight rail companies. The banks are globally competitive and go out and expand despite their protected market at home. CN and CP are like Bell, Rogers and Telus. They know they have zero ability to compete without protection. That's why they don't try.

Wasn't it CP who bought KC? Not the other way around. And don't CPKC and CN own rail all the way from Prince Rupert to deep into Mexico?

 

[Altair]

The Govt didn't want CN Rail. It was the Chretien Govt who privatized them. You can also read the CN Commercialization Act for all the info you need.

Gives up control of organization they systematically ran in to ground then has audacity to complain about how organization they no longer control now runs. ...

My Father worked for CN in the 70s when it was a Crown Corporation. It wasn't all roses before the big bad wolves from Wall Street took over... it was peak Govt inefficiency and ineptitude.

CN is run great. I think CN is a Canadian success story, one where a successful Canadian company isn't gobbled up by American firms.

But let's be frank, CN goes out of its way to ensure VIA has poor service while charging VIA for the privilege of being systematically screwed over by CN.

VIA has less ridership as a result, CN gets to run more freight and deal with less pesky customer rail, and the cycle of abuse continues.

CN being a great company doesn't mean they don't treat VIA, by design, like trash.

 

[ytz]

Exactly why a separate organization, outside talent and a dedicated corridor are needed. Nobody in Canadian rail has succeeded in delivering decent passenger rail service in half a century. The fewer ties the better.

 

[ytz]

Wasn't it CP who bought KC? Not the other way around. And don't CPKC and CN own rail all the way from Prince Rupert to deep into Mexico?

Meh. Still a protected market in the US. Meanwhile those European and Asian rail companies Humphrey says are incompetent can build HSR from scratch in Africa or Asia. From Morocco to Uzbekistan to Taiwan to Thailand. CP thinks having a few employees who speak Spanish is an accomplishment.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Wasn't it CP who bought KC? Not the other way around. And don't CPKC and CN own rail all the way from Prince Rupert to deep into Mexico?

CN has offices in China. Both companies are multinational entities who operate in multiple countries.

CN owns lines running all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Altair]

Exactly why a separate organization, outside talent and a dedicated corridor are needed. Nobody in Canadian rail has succeeded in delivering decent passenger rail service in half a century. The fewer ties the better.

Like I said, if you gave this contract to CN, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw freight on the "dedicated" passenger corridor.

Although maybe CN wants this so they can finally kill off VIA without feeling guilty about it.

I'll take off my tin foil hat now.

 

[ytz]

CN has offices in China.

What do they do in China beyond buy spare parts and market capacity in North America?

Toys R Us and Timmie Hos have more of a presence in China than CN.

 

[ytz]

Like I said, if you gave this contract to CN, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw freight on the "dedicated" passenger corridor.

Literally what was proposed for HFR. That they would run freight at night.

 

[YZT580]

The fact VIA pays CN for this while being forced to use diesel trains is a tragedy.

Have you and YTZ lived or worked for a prolonged period of time in Europe or are your experiences with their HSR the results of business trips and vacations? Because I have and I can assure you that the vast majority of rail passengers are on their equivalent to VIA or the GO. And they get people on those trains by providing a reliable and frequent service which is what VIA can't do because of CN. Every second or third train stops at every whistle stop. The others are express runs that travel maybe 30 miles or more between stops. Granted they don't have the large freight trains that we run but they seem to have them integrated time wise so that there are very few delays. And finally, their High Speed have issues as well. I have spent a lot of time sitting half way between stations because my train has quit runnning.
Getting rid of short haul flights is a great idea but it shouldn't be done at the expense of short haul service. That is where our money should be going. You two were huge fans of electric cars and getting rid of the ICE vehicles which is a worthy objective. But HSR won't do it. Drive any road out of a city and you will find that traffic peters out in at the most 60 miles. There isn't a lot of vehicle traffic between Cobourg and Kingston which is why the 401 goes to two lanes. For safety at level crossings I could never understand why CN/CP haven't emulated Europe and install gates that block the entire crossing.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

CN is run great. I think CN is a Canadian success story, one where a successful Canadian company isn't gobbled up by American firms.

But let's be frank, CN goes out of its way to ensure VIA has poor service while charging VIA for the privilege of being systematically screwed over by CN.

VIA has less ridership as a result, CN gets to run more freight and deal with less pesky customer rail, and the cycle of abuse continues.

CN being a great company doesn't mean they don't treat VIA, by design, like trash.

Like I said, read the committee notes. The Govt has the power to, with the stroke of a pen legislate whatever they want. Ask yourself why they have not done so?

What do they do in China beyond buy spare parts and market capacity in North America?

Toys R Us and Timmie Hos have more of a presence in China than CN.

Different industries, railways are political everywhere. CN was blocked from buying KCS FYI.

 

[Brad Sallows]

What does explain it? They don't have the ability to compete internationally.

I suppose it will grieve you to learn that there is more than one reason companies pass up opportunities, but at least you will learn something new. Many explanations are rooted in politics, which almost always overrides mundane things like technology and economics.

One is governments that tend to favour their own companies and consortiums. No point wasting time where the fixes are in.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There is a lot to be said for a company just doing what they know, do right, and stay in their own lanes....

Bastards do nothing but pay healthy dividends, predictably, for what seems like forever...

 

[Altair]

Like I said, read the committee notes. The Govt has the power to, with the stroke of a pen legislate whatever they want. Ask yourself why they have not done so?

CN makes money, VIA does not.

How much of that is by design is a open question.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Have you and YTZ lived or worked for a prolonged period of time in Europe or are your experiences with their HSR the results of business trips and vacations? Because I have and I can assure you that the vast majority of rail passengers are on their equivalent to VIA or the GO. And they get people on those trains by providing a reliable and frequent service which is what VIA can't do because of CN. Every second or third train stops at every whistle stop. The others are express runs that travel maybe 30 miles or more between stops. Granted they don't have the large freight trains that we run but they seem to have them integrated time wise so that there are very few delays. And finally, their High Speed have issues as well. I have spent a lot of time sitting half way between stations because my train has quit runnning.
Getting rid of short haul flights is a great idea but it shouldn't be done at the expense of short haul service. That is where our money should be going. You two were huge fans of electric cars and getting rid of the ICE vehicles which is a worthy objective. But HSR won't do it. Drive any road out of a city and you will find that traffic peters out in at the most 60 miles. There isn't a lot of vehicle traffic between Cobourg and Kingston which is why the 401 goes to two lanes. For safety at level crossings I could never understand why CN/CP haven't emulated Europe and install gates that block the entire crossing.

Different operating environments. European Countries don't have 14,000ft long trains. Most European Countries have train length caps of <2500ft because their rail network was built by Govts and designed for passenger rail as opposed to freight. 14,000ft trains aren't a thing in Europe.

I suppose it will grieve you to learn that there is more than one reason companies pass up opportunities, but at least you will learn something new. Many explanations are rooted in politics, which almost always overrides mundane things like technology and economics.

One is governments that tend to favour their own companies and consortiums. No point wasting time where the fixes are in.

Bingo! Hence why CN wasn't allowed to own KCS. It would never stand to have a foreign company own the mainline on both sides of the Mississippi. That was something the Americans, for national security reasons, would never accept.