HMCS Saskatoon - drug use trials

[Ropeburn]

Just talked to someone who just left the sentencing phase of Carlsons trial apparently $2000 fine and dismissal with disgrace. Still not sure what that is or the ramifications but havent looked it up yet either. Once again another interesting outcome as he also had his charges changed to only 129, not trafficing or disgraceful conduct.

 

[PMedMoe]

Sounds like a plea bargain.  $2000 fine?  That's ridiculous! 

 

[Sub_Guy]

April 18, 2008
THE CANADIAN PRESS

ESQUIMALT, B.C. - A former navy petty officer originally accused of drug smuggling aboard a Canadian warships has been found guilty of conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline and fined $2,000.


Former Petty Officer Christopher Carlson has also been formally dismissed from the navy for misconduct.


In sentencing Carlson, Canada's chief military judge said the case was a prime example of blatant disregard of Canadian Forces drug policy and an absolute abdication by a non-commissioned officer of his roles and responsibilities


But the judge noted that there was no evidence that Carlson was ever involved in cocaine trafficking on board the HMCS Saskatoon, a charge that was dropped at the start of his court martial earlier this week.


There was no evidence that Carlson ever used cocaine aboard HMCS Saskatoon but that he was involved in drug use with subordinates on his days off.


Four members of the small warship faced court martial as a result of a military sting operation in early 2006 - the one was simply fined and two were handed suspended jail sentences as well as fines.

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/356432

 

[geo]

booted out with disgrace....
not 100% certain but I don't think the fella gets anything from the CF xcept return of his pension contributions ...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

booted out with disgrace....
not 100% certain but I don't think the fella gets anything from the CF xcept return of his pension contributions ...

My understanding is he is/was Nav Res...

 

[Sub_Guy]

He was Nav Res.

I think this is a slap on the wrist (considering what the others received), but then again I don't know all the evidence.  I do find it hard to believe that the young reservists were able to get their COXN to do coke with them.

 

[OldSolduer]

The Cox doing drugs would be like the RSM doing drugs.....it sends the wrong message.....
Is dismissal with disgrace still a punishment? It should have been in this case....and I don't care if he was Naval reserve....this behavior is irresponsible and unethical.
Toss his a$$ onto the streets. He can deal drugs there.

 

[Monsoon]

I think this is a slap on the wrist (considering what the others received), but then again I don't know all the evidence.  I do find it hard to believe that the young reservists were able to get their COXN to do coke with them.

I knew Chris Carlson. He was (before all this) regarded as a hard worker and respected by his peers, subordinates and superiors. He gave the best years of his life to the navy, but he screwed up and got booted out for it. I don't think any time in prison would make him feel any worse than a disgraceful discharge and the loss of a lifetime of goodwill. In any case, the trafficking charge was trumped up and would have been tossed out of a civvie court as entrapment.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The Cox doing drugs would be like the RSM doing drugs.....it sends the wrong message.....
Is dismissal with disgrace still a punishment? It should have been in this case....and I don't care if he was Naval reserve....this behavior is irresponsible and unethical.
Toss his a$$ onto the streets. He can deal drugs there.

I agree 100% but IMO this punishment is a joke.  He probably made $2000 a day selling his crap.  Disappointing is the word that comes to mind.

 

[Yrys]

He probably made $2000 a day selling his crap. 

You think he had THAT many customers ?!?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't know and I suspect no one will ever know exactly.  From what I gather a user can go thru $200 a day of the junk...so thats only 10 people.

 

[Sub_Guy]

I knew Chris Carlson. He was (before all this) regarded as a hard worker and respected by his peers, subordinates and superiors. He gave the best years of his life to the navy, but he screwed up and got booted out for it. I don't think any time in prison would make him feel any worse than a disgraceful discharge and the loss of a lifetime of goodwill. In any case, the trafficking charge was trumped up and would have been tossed out of a civvie court as entrapment.

I played hockey with the guy, and we were the same trade for a while, yes he was very well respected by all. 

Sure prison would not have made him feel any worse, but isn't it about punishment and not making him feel worse?  I am sure that guy in Merritt feels pretty bad too, so considering his feelings the charge should be less? 

I know the disgraceful discharge is pretty serious, but I feel that some prison time would have been warranted given his position and that the others were each given time.

At least its all over with. 

The entrapment thing is a joke, if he sold he sold, regardless how he was setup.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I knew Chris Carlson. He was (before all this) regarded as a hard worker and respected by his peers, subordinates and superiors. He gave the best years of his life to the navy, but he screwed up and got booted out for it. I don't think any time in prison would make him feel any worse than a disgraceful discharge and the loss of a lifetime of goodwill. In any case, the trafficking charge was trumped up and would have been tossed out of a civvie court as entrapment.

Its not often I agree with "hamiltongs" but did the Judge not say there was "no evidence" that the accused was ever involved in dealing drugs, but was just a user? [not downplaying the seriousness of that but hold on]

Maybe the man became hopelessly addicted and was no longer in control of his own actions? Gee, I sure hope none of you ever start having a few more drinks more often than you should, or maybe expect any help/leeway if you start showing any symptoms of PTSD............naw, lets just toss ya out on the scrap heap with the rest of the carcass's.

Now, just so we are clear, I'm not defending this man as I am not privy to his thoughts and actions beforehand, however, I will also not condemn a man until I am privy to those same thoughts and actions beforehand when regarding an addictive substance. Hey, if he was doing coke just for the thrill every once in a while then he played the game and deservedly lost and can wander off into the lowlight, however if he had an addiction problem that possibly might have came out of one bad decision then shouldn't we take that into consideration before we tar and feather someone?

I know the wolves will howl but.........

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Bruce,

I hear what you are saying but I have ZERO sympathy for him.  Drugs are drugs.  HE made the choice to use, sell, allow subordinates to use, whatever he was doing.  If he had of NEVER used the crap in the first place, he would never had become and addict.  His decision.  NO sympathy from this corner.

 

[Ropeburn]

Agreed, partly. He made a choice he deserves what he gets, but if i interpret the regs right he has/had the choice to seek help. Wether he did or didnt, i dont know but again he made a choice. i believe the consequences of your actions should be comensurate with the harm you've done and as i see it due to rank and position the harm he did was cause the navy to lose 4 if not more "good" sailors and irreperably damage the respect/authority given to those in similar ranks and positions. Pretty sure jail time would not have fixed the damage but at least it would have been seen to punish those who make the choice to follow that way of life.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Part of punishment is the idea of a deterrent is it not?

Members who are using drugs can request help with addictions services, which is then considered medical treatment and confidential.  I do not see where this member has ever attempted to do this.  He got caught plain and simple and IMO should have had the most severe of punishments available given IAW the limitations of the charge(s) under the NDA.

In terms of the harm he has done, what about the harm done to the CF and the Naval Service?  The WO/PO rank?  The ship he sailed with?  The people who sailed under him, who he partied with?  People who were an acquaintance to him who might now be given a closer look just because of an innocent association with him?

So he gets a job at a call center or something, pays his fine and live goes on.  BS.

 

[Ropeburn]

Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline
Prejudicing good order or discipline

129. (1) Any act, conduct, disorder or neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline is an offence and every person convicted thereof is liable to dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service or to less punishment.

He got the harshest sentence for the charge. For some unknown reason they plead down the drug charges. So it is the best the prosecuter could get.
Wonder how he got he lesser charge?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No jail/DB time = lesser punishment (IMO)...

 

[garb811]

Its not often I agree with "hamiltongs" but did the Judge not say there was "no evidence" that the accused was ever involved in dealing drugs, but was just a user? [not downplaying the seriousness of that but hold on]

I'll have to wait until the transcript comes out to figure out what actually transpired in the CM because I'm a bit confused due to the Military Judge's alleged comments.  If the charge of trafficking was dropped at the start of the trial then no evidence would have been introduced supporting the charge of trafficking, because he was no longer being tried on that count.  But, if that was the case, why did the Military Judge see fit to comment on that issue in what I presume was the sentencing phase? 

 

[geo]

Conduct to the Prejudice of Good Order and Discipline
Prejudicing good order or discipline

129. (1) Any act, conduct, disorder or neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline is an offence and every person convicted thereof is liable to dismissal with disgrace from Her Majesty’s service or to less punishment.

He got the harshest sentence for the charge. For some unknown reason they plead down the drug charges. So it is the best the prosecuter could get.
Wonder how he got he lesser charge?

Charge was the least difficult to prove IMHO
The Judge was probably irritated with the lesser charges being prosecuted and went with the heavier charge....