Hospital ship for Canada

[Cloud Cover]

somebody responded to that article quite forcefully ..

 

[Lumber]

Hospital ship for Canada articles coming out of the woodwork now.

http://espritdecorps.ca/why-doesnt-canada-have-military-hospital-ships/2016/5/10/why-doesnt-canada-have-a-military-hospital-ship?rq=hospital%20ship

I was really hoping that that article had some actual explanation as to why we don't. Instead, it just trudges on about the merits of having a hospital ships, make arguments about why it should be easy to have one, and the finishes off with little more than:

So, given the inherent value of a national asset like a hospital ship, its contribution to our ability to project soft power, its ability to contribute to Canadian international development and humanitarian response, and its affordability, why doesn’t Canada have a hospital ship?

I can think of a few reasons why Canada doesn't have one, and won't in the near future. We are having enough trouble simply getting CCG and RCN vessels built, we haven't even started talking about replacements for the subs, and you want to add one of these to the mix?

Ok, sure, you can buy some civilian vessel and reconfigure it (Davies will probably do it for cheap, too). However, we don't have a very large military with an over abundance of physicians. We would have to seriously deplete CF Health Svcs in order to man one of these thing.

Ok, so hire some more Doctors? Well, unlike Vietnam, Cambodia, Russia, or most of the other countries listed in the article, who's doctors make very little, Canadian doctors are among the 5 most highly paid physicians in the world.

Also, politics. I firmly believe that the Government of Canada is a massively risk averse organization. The though of sending down a ship full of doctors to perform surgeries must give our politicians nightmares. What if someone were to die under anesthesia? Or worse, due to a mistake by one of the doctors? Better to just give a bunch of money to an NGO and let them absorb the liability.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Do up a PowerPoint with a fancy acronym and a picture of a Mistral painted white with a big red cross on the side and you could likely convince the Liberals and voters to buy 2 of them and they aren’t from the US either. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

I'm with those who say that the Royal Canadian Navy/Canadian Forces has no need, none at all, for a hospital ship and it, building/leasing on for DND is just silly ...
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... but Foreign Affairs (or is it Global Affairs?) ...

                   

...might find use for one and this government might be able to find the money for it (perhaps from the defence budget  : ).

It's too bad Bombardier doesn't build ships. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

It's too bad Bombardier doesn't build ships. 

They used to! At least their Canadair division did, before they acquired it.

They built HMCS BRAS D'OR. I bet you they still have a set of plans stuffed in a corner somewhere.

Now, that would be a hospital ship that you could deploy quickly!  OK, it would be too small - perhaps a new concept : an Ambulance ship.  [

 

[larry Strong]

The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy has started doing this with some vigor using their new'ish Type 920 hospital ship the "Peace Ark".  It is being used for Global Medical Engagement & Diplomacy missions to further the foreign policy and influence of the Chinese government (whilst at the same time doing some good in the world). It is big... like 50 surgeries a day big!  You can find it in places close to us like say, Mexico, Barbados, Grenada, Peru, Cuba, Trinidad, Costa Rica and Jamaica as well as the Philippines, French Polynesia and Yemen.

MC

And the 2 US Hospital shis are doing the same with Operation Continuing Promise.....

......the ship deployed for five months providing medical and surgical services to nine locations in the Caribbean and Latin America - Jamaica, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Haiti. During this mission, the ship's crew set up medical and surgical civil action program sites. These temporary medical clinics included primary care, internal medicine, obstetrics, and pediatric physicians as well as physical therapy, dental, radiology, laboratory, and pharmacy services. On board the ship general surgery, ophthalmology, oral and maxillofacial, and orthopedic surgeries were performed on pre-screened patients......

From Wiki.....


Cheers
Larry

 

[Blackadder1916]

For those that may be interested, the latest episode of "Mighty Ships" on the Discovery Channel (today locally at 1900hr MT - in about an hour) will feature the USNS Comfort as it ". . . travels from Colombia and through the Panama Canal  on a mission of mercy to the tiny Caribbean island of Dominica . . . "

 

[Blackadder1916]

For those that may be interested, the latest episode of "Mighty Ships" on the Discovery Channel (today locally at 1900hr MT - in about an hour) will feature the USNS Comfort as it ". . . travels from Colombia and through the Panama Canal  on a mission of mercy to the tiny Caribbean island of Dominica . . . "

If you missed it when it was on the TV schedule, it is now available for viewing on the Discovery Channel site.
http://www.discovery.ca/Video?vid=871308

Found a few documents that may help better inform those who are interested in this subject.  The first two, from 1986, provide some background on the initial conversion and concept of operation of the US Navy's current hospital ships.  They seem familiar to me and I probably brought copies of one or both back from my late-1980s visit to the COMFORT and used them as reference in the service paper I wrote for my director. (Probably also used some as background in the development of a "ship's hospital" design for the Polar 8 icebreaker - the CCG requested our input for the medical facility that they included in that unrealized project.  Strange as it sounds, back then I was the staff officer responsible for ships medical facility planning - obviously NDHQ was as screwed up then as it is now.)


T-AH Hospital Ship General Information Manual
https://archive.org/details/TAHHospitalShipGeneralInformationManual

INTRODUCTION TO T-AH 19 HOSPITAL SHIP
https://archive.org/details/INTRODUCTIONTOTAH19HospitalShip

This document was prepared by the Medical Liaison Team at the Supervisor
of Shipbuilding, Conversion and Repair, . USN, (SUPSHIP) San Diego. It is designed
to familiarize new personnel with the general history, mission, and
physical characteristics of the T-AH 19 Class Hospital Ship. It is not a
statement of medical department or Navy pol icy am should not be represented
as such. Some of its information concerns general ship operation and details
but the primary thrust is toward the hospital functions and capabilities.

These concern possible replacement of MERCY and COMFORT.

http://www.mobilehospital.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ADA554335.pdf
Naval Surface Warfare Center NSWCCD-CISD–2011/004 August 2011  Hospital Ship Replacement
This has an interesting acknowledgement among the pers who contributed.

The HSR design team would like to sincerely thank the following for guidance throughout the project:
. . .
LCdr Robert D’Eon NSWCCD 2202, Canadian Navy Liaison
. . . 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a614483.pdf
NSWCCD-80-2014/039 August 2014
Development of the Hospital Ship Replacement (HSR) Concept – Maximizing Capability & Affordability

And what the Chinese are doing with their hospital ship.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a552566.pdf
Red Crosses, Blue Water  Hospital Ships and China’s Expanding Naval Presence

 

[Spencer100]

Old thread renewal

USN new fast Hospital Ships. They are smaller but still have 10 ICU beds, 23 ward beds, and two operating rooms.

Why the Navy is getting fast new medical ships

Unlike large hospital ships like the USNS Mercy, these new vessels will be catamarans that are faster and more nimble.

www.popsci.com

Would be interesting for RCN and the HADR and soft power feels of the current government.

Fast to Haiti and back!

OT I had read that there is a bit of we need keep Austral USA open and working. The EFT hull is in production and this a roll we can make a case for it.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Old thread renewal

USN new fast Hospital Ships. They are smaller but still have 10 ICU beds, 23 ward beds, and two operating rooms.

Why the Navy is getting fast new medical ships

Unlike large hospital ships like the USNS Mercy, these new vessels will be catamarans that are faster and more nimble.

www.popsci.com

Would be interesting for RCN and the HADR and soft power feels of the current government.

Fast to Haiti and back!

OT I had read that there is a bit of we need keep Austral USA open and working. The EFT hull is in production and this a roll we can make a case for it.

So, essentially the same capacity as the plywood R3MMU in Kandahar. Only useful if you're not expecting more than a handful of casualties at any given time.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Old thread renewal

USN new fast Hospital Ships. They are smaller but still have 10 ICU beds, 23 ward beds, and two operating rooms.

Why the Navy is getting fast new medical ships

Unlike large hospital ships like the USNS Mercy, these new vessels will be catamarans that are faster and more nimble.

www.popsci.com

Would be interesting for RCN and the HADR and soft power feels of the current government.

Fast to Haiti and back!

OT I had read that there is a bit of we need keep Austral USA open and working. The EFT hull is in production and this a roll we can make a case for it.

AFAIK the Berlin class supported some hospital container modules but we cut out some of the equipment required to support that. So probably not in the SSE to have that on a ship (beyond normal sick bay).

We also paid extra to design out the saunas and beer kegs in the lounges, so some choices were made.

 

[dimsum]

We also paid extra to design out the saunas and beer kegs in the lounges

 

[Navy_Pete]

Fun police strike again!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Fun police strike again!

If the were dressed are NWOs that would be an awesome fun police .gif

 

[Navy_Pete]

If the were dresses are NWOs that would be an awesome fun police .gif

things got weird when I searched the gifs for fun police! Don't recommend on a work computer.

 

[Maxman1]

AFAIK the Berlin class supported some hospital container modules but we cut out some of the equipment required to support that. So probably not in the SSE to have that on a ship (beyond normal sick bay).

We also paid extra to design out the saunas and beer kegs in the lounges, so some choices were made.

And the Mistral class (at least the production model; not sure about the larger BPC 250) has a 20 room, 69 bed hospital bay, seven of which are ICU.

 

[Dana381]

Wasn't Asterix supposed to be able to convert the vehicle deck to a hospital of sorts for disaster response? I seem to remember something like that when she was first advertised

 

[lenaitch]

hospital of sorts

That might be the limiting factor. Mere space isn't the only issue.

 

[medicineman]

That might be the limiting factor. Mere space isn't the only issue.

This - you need people you can pick and move quickly to staff it...that aren't already tasked somewhere else.

 

[lenaitch]

This - you need people you can pick and move quickly to staff it...that aren't already tasked somewhere else.

I wasn't even thinking personnel, but that would be significant. Every time you set something like this up it needs specialized staffing - from somewhere; and the bigger the setup the bigger the demands.

I was more thinking of the facilities. Square footage may be great, but you need things like power, ventilation, oxygen, suction and all the stuff that needs to happen outside of the surgical suite or treatment space to enable them. Maybe that can be all containerized now. I don't know.