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How good is the side arm?

Acorn said:
Overall the Browning is a very good weapon, but it is dated (the first ones used by CF were in WWII, and current inventory most date from the Acorn

All John Inglis Browning 9mm High Powers were made in Ontario during the Second World War (along with Cdn made BREN LMGs - not bad for a washing machine company, eh), first being produced in Jan 1944. Production on the Inglis T series pistol ceased after the war. Serial numbers range from 0T followed by 3 to 4 didgets, to 10T with four didgets. In the early 1980's FN herstal '2 piece' barrels began to appear after older Inglis ones had been cracking from the hot Cdn IVI loads.

As for the 9mm ctg, after the cracking of bbls in the early 1908s, the CF had decided to have a cartridge specific for the pistol, as yes the SMG 9mm rd used was one of the hottest loads ever made, and had even earned the reputation of mangling German P-08 'Luger' pistols the Lads had souvenired and were 'using' duing the last war.

A different ctg ID number (cartridges for weapons UN.....), you know that UN number on the ammo tins, which are NATO std, was used for the two different types of IVI 9mm ammo for the pistol and the C1 SMG. They even use these codes here. After I left the CF in Jan of 1995, I have no idea about ammo in the CF system now, and I don't even know if IVI is even making 9 x19mm anymore.
IVI still makes 9mm  ;)  at least we have not fully pissed away our arms and ammo industry.
Wesley H. Allen said:
As for the 9mm ctg, after the cracking of bbls in the early 1908s, the CF had decided to have a cartridge specific for the pistol, as yes the SMG 9mm rd used was one of the hottest loads ever made, and had even earned the reputation of mangling German P-08 'Luger' pistols the Lads had souvenired and were 'using' duing the last war.

I last fired 9mm in the 80s (OK, I last "officially" did) and don't remember different pistol/SMG rounds. I do remember some problems with the IVI 9mm sometimes being too powerful for the pistol (personally never experienced any bbl cracking though) and sometimes being too weak for the SMG. I was warned about the problem with using MilSpec IVI ball with the Luger (the aramture cocking mech was pretty delicate) and I even had a "reputable" gun dealer warn me that my 1944 P-38 was suceptable to the same problem - yeah, right. The P-38 I had was one of the best pistols I ever fired, and certainly the best I ever owned. It's only flaw was, IMO, the 8 rd mag. Otherwise it was ahead of its time - de-cocking mech, double action, safety locked firing pin and even a little tit that stuck out in the vic of the hammer to indicate if a round was in the chamber.

If I have one regret about divesting myself of my various firearms, it is losing that one - matching serial nos, "AC" (Karl Walther Waffenfabrik) mfg code, almost mint condition (original bluing with slight holster wear).


P.S. You guys are scaring my bride. I'm starting to get enthused about firearms again (after about a 10 year hiatus) and am starting to try to convince her that they aren't the tool of the devil, and we wouldn't be harmed by having a couple around the house - strategically placed, of course.
Bring her to the Range - we are shooting at the club Sat 0900-1500 at the ATS.  I'm sure one of us will have a plethora of "loaners" you and she could shoot.  Maybe not this w/e IIRC your domestic 'schedule' - but sometime that works...
How good is this sidearm?


Trigger - Single action, heavy, narrow trigger design.  When a heavy trigger pull is accompanied with a narrow trigger it is very easy for a novice shooter to pull his/hers shot low and to the strong side. 

Sights - fixed rear, narrow front blade- non field adjustable.  Front blade is "peened" into place, narrow blade requires extra concentration to properly align sights - hard to do under pressure for novice shooter.  Front sight is susceptible to being knocked out of position and/or lost.

Magazine Disconnector - does not allow user to operate pistol during any magazine change but especically during an emergency magazine change with a round in the chamber - it renders the pistol useless for this period of time.  Most personnel are not trained in performing emergency magazine changes... if at all.

Safety- non ambidextrous - as with any mechanical device, they can fail, more frequently the safeties will fail in the on position, they tend to stick on and/or are hard to manipulate into the fire mode... time is life, if it fails at the wrong time...

Magazines - feed lips bent out of tolerances, no magazine feed lip mandrels available - magazines out of tolerance induce the majority of the "Failure to Fire" due to double feeds and stovepiping.


Most personnel get 32 rounds per year to qualify.  As Infidel 6 has mentioned the PWT is not a realistic test for the users... the enemy will not stand completely still while you are complete exposed and be allowed to take your time.   The BHP requires a lot of rounds for the user to become proficient. Also personnel are not trained in the following:

Shooting at multiple threats
Shooting with strong or weak hands
Shooting on the move
Shooting from cover (barricades, doors and windows)
Shooting on the move (forward, rearward and lateral movement while shooting)
Drawing the weapon from a holster into immediate action, or proper use of the holster
Drawing from a holster while seated in an aircraft, vehicle, or room.
The different carry states, and how it ratchet from each state into action (chambered, cocked and safetied, unchambered, magazine inserted,  chambered and safety off (Hot))

Ancillary Equipment - Holsters

I have been issued a variety of holster over the years.  The underarm shoulder holster - unless it is worn over and is completely exposed, the user will not have quick access to it,  Hip holster with drop leg extension, flag cover and/or thumb break.  These all have their purposes but must be understood properly...

example... underarm shoulder holster - good for most aircrew, less physical restrictions making for easier flying. Now lets load that pistol... how do you carry it?  are you chambered? cocked and locked?  where is it pointed?  to the crew and passengers in the rear...  Logic says do not chamber a round...

I like the BHP and have owned one myself, but it is not a pistol that the novice shooter should have to rely on in an emergency.  Some say that if you have to use your pistol then you are already in a world of hurt... I believe that if you have to use your pistol, one should know how to use it effectively and efficiently.

With the above pistol attributes, the Browning High Power requires more training that the newer pistols, so the pistol, the holsters, and the training or lack thereof  combined make for a very poor self defense weapons system.  All of shortcoming can be overcome with the proper training.

Is is a good sidearm?  Yes... for us.. NO!

I have owned/own the Sig Sauer P226, BHP, CZ75B. Glock 17, Glock 17C, SA XD40 Tactical, Norinco NP30 Double stack .45 ACP with a couple more pistols currently on order.  I shoot approx 20-30000 rounds a year for training and competition.