How to Pack Sleeping Bags

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So are you telling me you think shaving on a weekend ex is completely necessary and provides a valuable lesson for troops?

Obviously the situation will dictate what you do.  You're not going to stop in the middle of an attack to shave.  As far as providing a valuable lesson for the troops, absolutely.  Every soldier needs to be able to look after himself.  That includes staying heathly.  You don't stay healthy by being a dirt pig whether its during a weekend Ex or a 6 month deployment.  Its like sleeping and eating.  Do it while you can 'cause you don't know when your next chance might be.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nothing like a quick shave and a birdbath to make you feel human again  All I ask of my guys, given the tactical situation is to shave every 24 hrs, preferably, by noon. Myself, I like doing it just before I rack, get the cam off, shave and have as comfortable a sleep as possible. Get up, cam up, and go to work. My $00.02.

 

[kyleg]

Obviously the situation will dictate what you do.  You're not going to stop in the middle of an attack to shave.  As far as providing a valuable lesson for the troops, absolutely.  Every soldier needs to be able to look after himself.  That includes staying heathly.  You don't stay healthy by being a dirt pig whether its during a weekend Ex or a 6 month deployment.  Its like sleeping and eating.  Do it while you can 'cause you don't know when your next chance might be.

Touché, I stand corrected.

Cheers,
Pinky

 

[GO!!!]

Further to Ammo's post,

Ablutions and hygiene are a part of trg, I just happen to think that ablutions should happen in the rear, and that's where my follow up kit usually is!

I feel for ya Gerry Can, but I can honestly say the first thing that gets stop dropped in the field for us is shaving. We seem to have the common sense to let the good things come in threes - hot meal, showers, then I'll shave.

I just think that the shave kit has no place on a patrol.

 

[pappy]

hummm you don't think being required to shave in the field has anything to do with, huh whats the word discipline?

hey I've been there, had to shave in the Corps in the desert when there was barely enough water to drink...
and in weather so cold if you didn't shave fast enough the water would freeze...  Sucks

One thing no one of you have mentiented.... one circumstance we all hope never happens... Biological-chemical warfare....

Next time your scheduled to go to the gas chamber, don't shave for a week or so and see if your mask seals correctly, ask your RSM / First Sgt.  I'm sure he'll get enough of a chuckle to let you experiment....

It's more then hygiene....

 

[Manimal]

i think the tradition, and the fact it's policy says a lot about it. and the gas stuff too  :evil:

 

[GerryCan]

I just think that the shave kit has no place on a patrol.

I agree 100%, although my unit doesn't. After all's said and done, brew up, shower if avail. and then shave. But if you've got the time ie; hide routine, I really don't see a reason not to. Like recceguy said, it's a morale thing and it gets the cam paint off easily.

How the hell did we get on this topic anyways?

 

[GO!!!]

I agree with you on the gas mask effectiveness pappy, but four points come to mind.

1) the NBC gear in my unit rides with the quartermaster and is "on call", so it comes forward with your shave kit anyway.

2) Tests have proven that in a deliberate NBC attack, 78% of troops would become casualties - even if they were in TOPP high prior to the exposure.

3) A tasking of the Pioneer platoon (when we had it) is to conduct NBC surveys, and those dudes often more closely represent ZZ top than soldiers!

4) It obviously has nothing to do with operational effectiveness, as sikhs, muslims and anyone else with a cultural reason is not required to shave.

As for discipline, well, I consider the soldier who maintains his weapon, kit and body to a high standard while performing his duties well to be disciplined. Fit and ready to fight. Who cares about some hair on his face in the field?

IMHO, shaving in the field is a throwback to the bad ole days, perpetuated by a CoC that cannot bring itself to challenge old ways of thinking.

(Sigh) Wait until I run this army....

 

[2 Cdo]

Go, I concur 100%! If we are still measuring how good, and professional a soldier is by how clean shaven he is while on Ex or Ops we are definitely hurting. I guess all the unshaven SF fellows I have worked with, run into were a dishevelled, unprofessional mob! Shaving in the field, whether you do or don't, means nothing when compared to how one maintains his weapon and kit!
As a side note, I personally HATE shaving, and loved my time spent in Pioneer Platoon! ;D

 

[geo]

Anybody been thru FRY / BH and has had to deal with "irregulars" and all the other riff raff that simply ruin it for everyone else?
Troops in the field, all troops in the field should be distinguishable from the mob. An organized force, that is uniform (all same kit) AND looks after itself (yup - shaving self too) will give the local population that warm & fuzzy feeling that comes with the professional confidence projected by our troops.

WRT the sleeping bag carrier - not really much of anything but, when you're working out of the back of an APC, you can carry most of your personal kit inside - instead of outside... don't recommend carrying 10 rucks in the back of a track.

 

[GO!!!]

Sorry, I'm not clear on the Engineer motto, but ours is to "close with and destroy the enemy."

We also have a creed and 10 commandments.

Nowhere do these state that the locals should feel warm and fuzzy about my presence, furthermore, I would prefer that they felt debilitating fear, so that I can do my job and go home, with out worrying about them getting in the way.

I would consider a fit, alert soldier with a bit of a scruff to appear far more disciplined than a teletubby in uniform who just wants to be loved, but had the time to shave.

When I run the army, all those who achieve marksman and gold on the coopers test are excused shaving!

 

[2 Cdo]

Perfect! ;D
I nominate Go!!! for CDS!

 

[Fusaki]

Agreed.

The way I see it, if you have the chance to shower, then you also have the chance to shave...

But to bring a shave kit into a patrol base? Thats a half pound extra weight you don't need. I'm a firm believer that just because you're fit enough to ruck hard on PT, it doesn't mean your kit should be heavier on EX. Less weight means more energy to fight the good fight, and the little things like shave kits add up. A shave kit should be in your follow up kit, but there are other more important things to go in your ruck.

 

[geo]

well Go!, if you aren't familiar with what Sappers do in the field and where they happen to be when the crap hits the fan.... you haven't been paying attention.... cause we're right up there - opening the breach for you to go thru

How much weight are you talking about when you are bitching about the weight of your shaving gear? you're blowin it way out of proportion. If your shaving gear feels that heavy... one of your mates has slipped a couple of paperweights into your ruck while you weren't looking. Am not preaching a fanatical application of shaving .... but to do it when convenient  - there should not be a problem there.

 

[pappy]

Agreed.

The way I see it, if you have the chance to shower, then you also have the chance to shave...

But to bring a shave kit into a patrol base? Thats a half pound extra weight you don't need. I'm a firm believer that just because you're fit enough to ruck hard on PT, it doesn't mean your kit should be heavier on EX. Less weight means more energy to fight the good fight, and the little things like shave kits add up. A shave kit should be in your follow up kit, but there are other more important things to go in your ruck.

A disposable razon weighs 1/2 pound?  I'm assuming you have already a bar of soap and wash towle in your kit? at least you need to clean up once in a while, adding a razor can't add 1/2 more pound.

 

[GO!!!]

Pappy and geo,

Ask yourselves, why are we shaving at all? In garrison yes. In a firm fwd base, yes. But really, why in the field? There is no good answer. It is one of those "because" things.

Try to get out of the mindset of "I did it, so it must be correct".

And not to belittle your efforts RSM, but my last ruck in an operation weighed 121lbs - swear to god- I weighed it at the airhead. The temperatures were in the high 40s - that's Centigrade - and I did'nt bring a sleeping bag cuz I carried water and ammo instead.

So yeah, I left the shave kit at the base, and (bless his soul) the CO tore a strip off one CSM who tried to make his coy shave with their precious water.

If this happened in Baden, Lahr or Cyprus, please correct me, but we do things differently now, and our kit and rules must adapt!

But - I did shave as soon as I came back, cuz you can't get a hot meal with a scruff!

 

[Joe Blow]

Lets change the title of this thread to; "Shaving Kit ...A Time and a Place?"  (Or something like that.) 

Edit: Grammar

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Lets change the title of this thread to; "Shaving Kit ...A Time and a Place?"   (Or something like that.)  

Edit: Grammar

JB,

In deference to your profile, MYOB. You're out of your league.

GO!,

I'l l agree, to a point, but where do you draw the line? A two day patrol, or two weeks on ex? I don't think anyone is saying, while your on the job (patrol), you have to shave. My 24 hr rule doesn't apply to guys on a dismounted OP. However, when downtime presents itself, and your going to rack for a few to five hours, a quick wash and a two minute shave isn't asking much. My troops have the advantage of vehicles to carry their shaving gear. To say "I'm in field for a month, I'm not shaving" is a statement without foundation or substantiation for reason.

 

[RangerRay]

So, sleeping bags...

Is the 3 ton "down" sleeping bag still the standard issue bag for Army?

I got a civy MEC bag that is a fraction of the weight, much warmer and even somewhat water proof to boot!

Mind you, it's also bright purple, so it probably wouldn't be appropriate to bring on ex...  ;D

 

[Joe Blow]

JB,

In deference to your profile, MYOB. You're out of your league.

I have not been anything but deferent, polite and respectful to the others on this thread, in recognition of the obvious discrepancies in experience ..ie. my 'none' to everyone else's 'some'.

With that approach noted - and with respect - I would suggest that I am not out of my league as this is a thread of my own creation. (I have stayed firmly 'within my lane' as they say.)  ..The suggestion regarding a name change for it was intended to be constructive change to it.

Joe.

PS: I do not understand "MYOB".

(Edit:  ..Really do what ever you want with it.. Make it a shaving thread, or a sleeping bag thread..  I'm just reading.)