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If you were the PM what would YOU do to the military?
If you were the Prime Minister . . .
- Thread starter jerrythunder
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Besides making our citizens own up to the fact that we have one?
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Actually this is the only thread that asks for specifics. That I can see.
I would somehow up the military budget to 2.5% of GDP and have it rise in response to inflation. Make sure that at least 35% of that goes towards capitol spending.
Make the military exempt from the charter of rights when it comes to training standards as well as recruiting certain percentages of the population. In other words if you can do the job, no matter what your sex, colour, creed, or whatever... ...then your in.
Increase training standards to where they were 20-30 years ago and maintain them through the entire military service. This way only those capable of doing the job (physically speaking) get into the combat arms. No more dough boys.
Return heavy and long range transport to the Air Force.
Start designing a naval destroyer before our last ones rust completely and we lose all ability to command task forces. Get hands on 4-8 nuclear subs so that we can patrol under the ice pack (whats left of it). Buy 3-6 ice breakers to do surface patrols up North, and get our hands on support ship replacements that can also act as troop transports.
As for the Army... ...where do you start? New tanks, new this, new that... ...the list is long! Tactical helicopter gunships would be nice as well.
Oh, and up the recruiting to 85,000 regular, and at least 25,000 reserve.
Then I would get my axe out and pay a visit to ND HQ. Blood bath.
Cut out the rank of General and make our head honcho a Lt. General. All jobs below get a rank reduction through retirements and buy outs. In fact, most the departments only need a Col. at most. If they need a higher rank to work on the world stage, then give them an operational only promotion. They did it in both world wars. Why not now.
Cut most of the departments down in size, as well as get rid of most of the civilian deputy ministers and return them to military command. Remove the JAG offices from ND HQ and put them in a separate building.
Sigh... ...the wish list is long.
I would somehow up the military budget to 2.5% of GDP and have it rise in response to inflation. Make sure that at least 35% of that goes towards capitol spending.
Make the military exempt from the charter of rights when it comes to training standards as well as recruiting certain percentages of the population. In other words if you can do the job, no matter what your sex, colour, creed, or whatever... ...then your in.
Increase training standards to where they were 20-30 years ago and maintain them through the entire military service. This way only those capable of doing the job (physically speaking) get into the combat arms. No more dough boys.
Return heavy and long range transport to the Air Force.
Start designing a naval destroyer before our last ones rust completely and we lose all ability to command task forces. Get hands on 4-8 nuclear subs so that we can patrol under the ice pack (whats left of it). Buy 3-6 ice breakers to do surface patrols up North, and get our hands on support ship replacements that can also act as troop transports.
As for the Army... ...where do you start? New tanks, new this, new that... ...the list is long! Tactical helicopter gunships would be nice as well.
Oh, and up the recruiting to 85,000 regular, and at least 25,000 reserve.
Then I would get my axe out and pay a visit to ND HQ. Blood bath.
Cut out the rank of General and make our head honcho a Lt. General. All jobs below get a rank reduction through retirements and buy outs. In fact, most the departments only need a Col. at most. If they need a higher rank to work on the world stage, then give them an operational only promotion. They did it in both world wars. Why not now.
Cut most of the departments down in size, as well as get rid of most of the civilian deputy ministers and return them to military command. Remove the JAG offices from ND HQ and put them in a separate building.
Sigh... ...the wish list is long.
C
CivU
Guest
"Oh, and up the recruiting to 85,000 regular, and at least 25,000 reserve"
"Increase training standards to where they were 20-30 years ago and maintain them through the entire military service. This way only those capable of doing the job (physically speaking) get into the combat arms. No more dough boys."
These two ideas may cancel eachother out...hard to increase by tens of thousands while at the same time rejecting a vast majority of persons applying...
"Increase training standards to where they were 20-30 years ago and maintain them through the entire military service. This way only those capable of doing the job (physically speaking) get into the combat arms. No more dough boys."
These two ideas may cancel eachother out...hard to increase by tens of thousands while at the same time rejecting a vast majority of persons applying...
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CivU said:
LOL ... isn't that the whole purpose of armies ... to cancel each other out? Zipper's proposal cunningly eliminates the icky warfighting part. Cheers.
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yes, increasing training standards would slow recruiting down. but I'd rather have that then the way we're going. Hell, even the RC MP has higher training standards now, and thats just sad. Besides, you don't need to increase standards over night. Slow progression towards a higher ideal.
As for the warfighting part. Hopefully the changes made would make us more effective at doing just that if it came down to it.
Oh, and one thing I missed. I would cancel all foreign missions for a period of at least 2 years to allow for rest, refit, and retraining.
As for the warfighting part. Hopefully the changes made would make us more effective at doing just that if it came down to it.
Oh, and one thing I missed. I would cancel all foreign missions for a period of at least 2 years to allow for rest, refit, and retraining.
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At my own risk I am going to wade into this thread...
1. Increase the size of the CF to aprox 100,000
2. Severely trim the method of procurement that the CF goes through every time we want new kit.
3. Begin to look at proven, off-the-shelf new kit to replace what needs replacing without having to wait 10 years and sink all kinds of development costs into the bargain.
Navy
4.Nuclear subs capable of Arctic deployment and coastal surveillance missions, as well as long-range surface support missions in case we ever have to face a naval threat.
5.Find an off-the shelf coastal patrol vessel and acquire about 30 to 40 of them for coastal defense and sovereignty. They could also Be used to train reservists in large numbers.
6. Buy an additional 40 Cyclone helicopters for use by the Airforce, for the navy. Ensure that some of them are configured for "trooplift" duties.
7. Acquire an off-the-shelf helicopter carrier that can be used as a multi-role deployment vessel (hospital, command post, troop transport ect)
8. Begin a merchant Marine program with a number of RORO's and the merchant sailors to staff them.
9.Either acquire the licensing to manufacture or buy replacement destroyers to replace the 280 class that are getting on. If anyone talks to a naval member of the forum they will quickly realize that the 280's provide several features that the CPF's cannot.
10. replace both Re fuelers.
Airforce
1. Replace the aging C-130's with something compareable...Like new C-130's...
2. Buy strategic air lift (what doesn't matter as long as the job gets done)
3. Buy a number of "defense" helicopters (actually disguised attack helo's...The SuperMarine SeaCobra should do nicely as its not as expensive as some others and is made by Bell) Also make sure that it can be deployable to a ship (Like the Helicopter carriers we're buying)
4. Acquire more UAV's
5. Upgrade or get more CF-18's and train the pilots to fly them.
6. Buy some sort of heavy troop lift helo for the army's use and buy enough of them so that they can actually do some good. Also make them ship deployable.
7. Get the BlackHawk...Its a proven platform. The troopies like it, It stands up well under fire and is tough as hell...As well as being able to lift quite a bit. (Keep the Griffon for the brass...That way the troops will know what to shoot dow...I mean the troops will know who's coming to visit >
)
8. Get the OH-6 Littlebird ( or something comparable) for recce.
8. Arm all of the above
Army
1. Bring back the Tank...The Abrams should do nicely...Iraq proves that there is a justified use for them on today's battlefield whether in the city or urban areas.
2. Bring back the CAR. Keep the jump capability and make them Airmobile.
3. Bring the Infantry regt.s up to full strength and start another regt. (the Black Watch perhaps?)
4. Replace the Milverado with hummers. They are tried, tested and true and come in so many different modules that we could eliminate an entire series of truck from the inventory (the LSVW perhaps?!)
5. Replace all figure 11 targets with ones depicting the current and passed heads of the Liberal govt. starting with Deafenbaker and an Avro Arrow in the background!
All for now, but I'm sure I've missed lots
Slim
1. Increase the size of the CF to aprox 100,000
2. Severely trim the method of procurement that the CF goes through every time we want new kit.
3. Begin to look at proven, off-the-shelf new kit to replace what needs replacing without having to wait 10 years and sink all kinds of development costs into the bargain.
Navy
4.Nuclear subs capable of Arctic deployment and coastal surveillance missions, as well as long-range surface support missions in case we ever have to face a naval threat.
5.Find an off-the shelf coastal patrol vessel and acquire about 30 to 40 of them for coastal defense and sovereignty. They could also Be used to train reservists in large numbers.
6. Buy an additional 40 Cyclone helicopters for use by the Airforce, for the navy. Ensure that some of them are configured for "trooplift" duties.
7. Acquire an off-the-shelf helicopter carrier that can be used as a multi-role deployment vessel (hospital, command post, troop transport ect)
8. Begin a merchant Marine program with a number of RORO's and the merchant sailors to staff them.
9.Either acquire the licensing to manufacture or buy replacement destroyers to replace the 280 class that are getting on. If anyone talks to a naval member of the forum they will quickly realize that the 280's provide several features that the CPF's cannot.
10. replace both Re fuelers.
Airforce
1. Replace the aging C-130's with something compareable...Like new C-130's...
2. Buy strategic air lift (what doesn't matter as long as the job gets done)
3. Buy a number of "defense" helicopters (actually disguised attack helo's...The SuperMarine SeaCobra should do nicely as its not as expensive as some others and is made by Bell) Also make sure that it can be deployable to a ship (Like the Helicopter carriers we're buying)
4. Acquire more UAV's
5. Upgrade or get more CF-18's and train the pilots to fly them.
6. Buy some sort of heavy troop lift helo for the army's use and buy enough of them so that they can actually do some good. Also make them ship deployable.
7. Get the BlackHawk...Its a proven platform. The troopies like it, It stands up well under fire and is tough as hell...As well as being able to lift quite a bit. (Keep the Griffon for the brass...That way the troops will know what to shoot dow...I mean the troops will know who's coming to visit >
)8. Get the OH-6 Littlebird ( or something comparable) for recce.
8. Arm all of the above
Army
1. Bring back the Tank...The Abrams should do nicely...Iraq proves that there is a justified use for them on today's battlefield whether in the city or urban areas.
2. Bring back the CAR. Keep the jump capability and make them Airmobile.
3. Bring the Infantry regt.s up to full strength and start another regt. (the Black Watch perhaps?)
4. Replace the Milverado with hummers. They are tried, tested and true and come in so many different modules that we could eliminate an entire series of truck from the inventory (the LSVW perhaps?!)
5. Replace all figure 11 targets with ones depicting the current and passed heads of the Liberal govt. starting with Deafenbaker and an Avro Arrow in the background!
All for now, but I'm sure I've missed lots
Slim
A
aesop081
Guest
Slim said:
You mean for use by the air force.......
AH-1 is the Cobra...OH-6 is the little bird you are refering to
Pieman
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If I was PM, I would change two important things that go hand in hand:
1) Change Canadian foreign policy from a 'passive power' (a.k.a. doing nothing) to an active one. Canada would be to take the role of picking up the slack of the UN, and take an active role in countries with needs. First stop would be intervention in the slaughter of innocent happening in Sudan, as we speak.
2) Provide the funding, equipment, and troops needed to get the job done to the CF.
A defined role as a country in this world is what we seem to be lacking. Ask any member of the public what defines Canada and I guarantee one of the things that will pop out of their mouth is 'Peacekeeping'....this country has been doing a little peace keeping, but really, we should be putting our money where our mouth is and do a lot more than that.
1) Change Canadian foreign policy from a 'passive power' (a.k.a. doing nothing) to an active one. Canada would be to take the role of picking up the slack of the UN, and take an active role in countries with needs. First stop would be intervention in the slaughter of innocent happening in Sudan, as we speak.
2) Provide the funding, equipment, and troops needed to get the job done to the CF.
A defined role as a country in this world is what we seem to be lacking. Ask any member of the public what defines Canada and I guarantee one of the things that will pop out of their mouth is 'Peacekeeping'....this country has been doing a little peace keeping, but really, we should be putting our money where our mouth is and do a lot more than that.
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Pieman said:
No...I disagree. The fastest way to kill an army's effectiveness, or sap the moral of the force is though"peacekeeping", which usually doesn't work anyway.
The only role that any nations military should be assigned to is "Peacemaking!", big difference!
Slim
Pieman
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I am sure you are correct Slim, but to the uninitiated civvies (like me) the two terms mean pretty much the same thing. Tell the voters you are going to 'Keep the Peace' or 'Make Peace' and you got their support either way. Then, with the cheque in hand, send the military off to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
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Peacekeeping doesn't work... ...in the long run. We've learned that the hard way. So stick to training for war and we'll be fine.
Diefenbaker was a conservative.
And we already have great little Coastal patrol vessels that were designed and built right here in Canada. Just not enough of them... ...go figure.
Also it seems that the most important consideration for most military contracts is that they be built here in Canada. Now I agree with this to a point. It has gone way out of hand however (thus the LLVW, Iltis, and AVGP's). We built one of the best naval ships on the 7 seas, and given the fact that I think we could do it again, lets build a destroyer along the same lines. Just saying...
Lets get the Iroquois helicopters back. They were awesome.
Diefenbaker was a conservative.
And we already have great little Coastal patrol vessels that were designed and built right here in Canada. Just not enough of them... ...go figure.
Also it seems that the most important consideration for most military contracts is that they be built here in Canada. Now I agree with this to a point. It has gone way out of hand however (thus the LLVW, Iltis, and AVGP's). We built one of the best naval ships on the 7 seas, and given the fact that I think we could do it again, lets build a destroyer along the same lines. Just saying...
Lets get the Iroquois helicopters back. They were awesome.
C
CivU
Guest
"the current and passed heads of the Liberal govt. starting with Deafenbaker"
Before you start any of your planned attacks, it would be nice to acknowledge John Diefenbaker as a former leader of the Progressive Conservative Party and not a Liberal...
Before you start any of your planned attacks, it would be nice to acknowledge John Diefenbaker as a former leader of the Progressive Conservative Party and not a Liberal...
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Zipper said:
If you're talking about the MCDVs, I'm going to disagree about it being a "great little Coastal patrol vessel". IMO, a great coastal patrol vessel should be able to go faster than 15kts, it should be able to go closer to 40kts. I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about their mission kit or capabilities, but their speed is the most obvious and biggest detractor to their capabilities.
Slim, you got my vote man, when are you running for office?
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Well I hate to say it... ...because the Arrow was always a sore point for me as well. But I have to agree with the decision at the time to cancel the project. Although why they decided to destroy the plans is beyond me. I have read quite a bit on the Avro Arrow, and when it comes right down to it, the cost over runs for the project just became way to large. To pay that much per plane would have bankrupted the government of the day, even with foreign orders. It was a sad sad day.
Yes, the MCDV's are slow. I'd forgotten about that.
Yes, the MCDV's are slow. I'd forgotten about that.
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"Replace all figure 11 targets with ones depicting the current and passed heads of the Liberal govt. starting with Deafenbaker and an Avro Arrow in the background!"
Hey Slim, U do know that Defenbaker scrapped the Avril Arrow which probably doomed canada from being one of the most powerful country's in the world eh?
Hey Slim, U do know that Defenbaker scrapped the Avril Arrow which probably doomed canada from being one of the most powerful country's in the world eh?
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