Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[FJAG]

Doesn't matter. They take the same fuzes, have the same compatibility class so they can be stored together. What is needed is more infrastructure to store what the army refuses to get rid of. If you keep getting and needing more stuff that needs specialized storage, it gets tiring pretty quickly for those that manage to special storage when told to just make it work.

No doubt.

For all that talk about logistics winning wars it still appears to me that Canada thinks symmetrical units with historic names win wars.

Notwithstanding there is some need for symmetry and if you have historic names why not use them, my take from the direction of the government so far is that it is turning to large L logistics in a number of ways. Even the army is evolving by adding two svc bns and a sustainment bde to 1 Div. There is a huge failure IMHO with the lack of a coherent plan to form any useful logistic entities in 2 Div. The CBG service bns seem to me to be the support company of the CARBs. There is no plan - to this point - for additional maintenance, logistics, or transport battalions to augment 1 Div's sustainment brigade or to provide theatre level support. The medical plan seems marginal at best.

I guess I'll wait for the CDS's big plan.

 

[AmmoTech90]

If the whispers I've heard about new energetic storage and processing infra are true then Canada will be well served.
The expansion to support units is also long overdue.
I will stand by my belief there are tooany ammo techs and what we need are better trained supply techs that can make a career track out of ammo.

 

[Kirkhill]

Doesn't matter. They take the same fuzes, have the same compatibility class so they can be stored together. What is needed is more infrastructure to store what the army refuses to get rid of. If you keep getting and needing more stuff that needs specialized storage, it gets tiring pretty quickly for those that manage to special storage when told to just make it work.

For all that talk about logistics winning wars it still appears to me that Canada thinks symmetrical units with historic names win wars.

How about space for all the rounds the government should have bought and should buy?

What is the approved life expectancy of a 105/155 shell?

How many days of war do we need to have on hand for how many divisions? Are we going to feed allies?

What is the necessary peacetime usage/production rate necessary to maintain fresh inventory?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

If the whispers I've heard about new energetic storage and processing infra are true then Canada will be well served.
The expansion to support units is also long overdue.
I will stand by my belief there are tooany ammo techs and what we need are better trained supply techs that can make a career track out of ammo.

That is a very interesting take.

Would you mind expanding on the last thought?

 

[KevinB]

I wish. We've got a wheels fetish up here. OTOH, if the Koreans make the industrial side of it very tempting then the government might just lean that way. IMHO, if you are a "northern" power and intend to swing your military influence towards "northern" theatre of operation, then get a gun that can go where it needs to everyday. When you decide dispersed, shoot and scoot doctrine then make sure the gun can do that.

I think the K9 for the Mech/Armour Division would be great.

We may have turned the corner on that. Aimpoint 1 is looking at equipping the arty ARes with the new equipment - SPs, HIMARS, VSHORAD, TA - we'll see how it goes. Force 2013 faltered on the STA side.

Color me a skeptic, but even so, I still see a use for the M777 (and maybe a Light 105...)

We've already got LG1s so don't need M119s which are also long in the tooth. There's nothing wrong with the LG1 that good maintenance won't fix (except being lifted by a Griffin - that was just stupid) That might just be a solution too - retire all of the C3s, but keep the LG1 in service for the LIB brigade by adding either an ARes LG1 battery or batteries to the M777 and HIMARS batteries I previously mentioned. I think we have 28 so there are plenty.

Divest the LG1, donate them to Ukraine, if the "Light Artillery" Regiment(s) have M119 and M777, they are compatible with the US Army - which for Light units that have links to 11th ABN for Continental Defense applications it makes sense -- plus you get new M119's, not older clapped out guns.

Switching to the LG1 (or M119) for AVCON would require reregistering all of the targets and a small modification to the guns. These are not big issues in the overall scheme of things.

My guess is that the materiel folks who handle ammo would just as soon get rid of the whole 105mm calibre to free up shelf space and simplify their ammo bunkers - bureaucracy rules where brains fail to work.

Hangars won't work easily. Each gun position has multiple targets to shoot. I can't recall the exact number but most of the gun positions have targets in a 360* arc. You'd need a shed with multiple doors and a way to ensure muzzle blast doesn't damage it or the crew's ears or brains. It's a tight valley with slide zones on both sides and sometimes around the corner. You never know which direction you fire in because that is all dependent on the wind and snowfall directions and which sheer layer of the snow is most at risk of releasing. The scientists who work up there and identify which slides to shoot and when are very good at their job. It's as much of an art as a science. The ring positions are simple and useful positions. Besides, who doesn't love firing live in the middle of a blizzard. Makes you feel like you've earned your pay.

So the whole house moves - turntable style - honestly I think bang for the buck buck making permanent installations is a better option - curious is you could mount a Naval gun turret on a fixed bunker - drop 18 on to the current positions - and now the RCN and the RCA can fight it out for who gets to crew them. Take 4 pers to each site for the duration of the avalanche season.
Yes larger front end costs - but that solves the issues for years.

 

[AmmoTech90]

What is the approved life expectancy of a 105/155 shell?

Good storage, 50+ years. I used cast TNT blocks from Op Snowball in 2022, metal clad 50lb TNT charges mfr in 1944 in 2004/5. First thing to go on a projectile would be the metal components from corrosion.

How many days of war do we need to have on hand for how many divisions?

How many days do you want to fight for and with what? How long do you estimate our formations can survive? The government has to decide if we are willing to replace destroyed formations.

How about space for all the rounds the government should have bought and should buy?

That is hopefully what the infrastructure expansion is for.

What is the necessary peacetime usage/production rate necessary to maintain fresh inventory?

A rate slightly more than the training forecast, and this is the important part, the ability to surge to meet 1.5 to 3 times the estimated daily operational use. You need an overage to allow shipping time. Unless we are fighting for Kingston.