Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[Maxman1]

Agreed on Point 1 - and point 2.

People really believe in miracles.....like the "surgical strike" of a 500 pound guided bomb. Its far from surgical.

The T-12 Cloudmaker is more "to whom it may concern".

 

[Maxman1]

This looks nice

View attachment 94032

Grenade Launcher | STEYR ARMS

Developed by STEYR ARMS the STEYR GL 40 is a light weight grenade launcher for standard low velocity 40 mm ammunition. Due to it’s design and various mounting

www.steyr-arms.com

So does this:

 

[Maxman1]

Which one? The French like their rifle grenades. We never adopted any for full service use.

APAV 40, which uses a bullet trap and slides over the muzzle of any STANAG muzzle device. The Americans also have a door breaching grenade, the M100 GREM.

 

[NavyShooter]

Now I have something to go looking for to add to my C1 Collection....

 

[markppcli]

Sometimes folks have nothing to say but we can't stop talking.




That's changing. People are expecting more and more precision.

kind of, we’re breaking people of the habit of adjusting by default. Close enough is good enough and all that.

 

[FJAG]

kind of, we’re breaking people of the habit of adjusting by default. Close enough is good enough and all that.

Technology has pretty much upped the game since my days where adjusting fire was an art. With GPS and the ability to fix direction accurately, at both the gun and OP, you are pretty much left with met and the round's CEP as the variables. We've upped the game on met as well and the M777 narrows the CEP. That's good enough for hitting area targets on a first round but not a point target. That still needs a munition with some type of terminal guidance which eliminates all met and CEP issues.

I can't speak for how much terminally guided munitions Canada has in its inventory, but they are widely available and getting considerably cheaper.

 

[KevinB]

APAV 40, which uses a bullet trap and slides over the muzzle of any STANAG muzzle device. The Americans also have a door breaching grenade, the M100 GREM.

The M100 is just the Israeli Simon, adopted down here in 2014.

Canada (CANSOF) had it before it was available down here.

Didn’t really go anywhere in SOCOM as one needs to remove one’s suppressor to use it.

To be honest I never got the point, If I’m being quiet I’ll be placing charges to breach — if it’s gone loud and it is close, it will be satchel charges. If it’s loud and longer it is much easily done by a Standalone M320, M203, or the Hk-69 — and then one does not need to remove ones can (which is going to be very hot), put the Simon grenade on the muzzle - aim and fire the Simon at the door/wall.

 

[Kirkhill]

Technology has pretty much upped the game since my days where adjusting fire was an art. With GPS and the ability to fix direction accurately, at both the gun and OP, you are pretty much left with met and the round's CEP as the variables. We've upped the game on met as well and the M777 narrows the CEP. That's good enough for hitting area targets on a first round but not a point target. That still needs a munition with some type of terminal guidance which eliminates all met and CEP issues.

I can't speak for how much terminally guided munitions Canada has in its inventory, but they are widely available and getting considerably cheaper.

You can also put a picture in the missile's memory and say:"fly here"

 

[AmmoTech90]

The M100 is just the Israeli Simon, adopted down here in 2014.

Canada (CANSOF) had it before it was available down here.

Didn’t really go anywhere in SOCOM as one needs to remove one’s suppressor to use it.

To be honest I never got the point, If I’m being quiet I’ll be placing charges to breach — if it’s gone loud and it is close, it will be satchel charges. If it’s loud and longer it is much easily done by a Standalone M320, M203, or the Hk-69 — and then one does not need to remove ones can (which is going to be very hot), put the Simon grenade on the muzzle - aim and fire the Simon at the door/wall.

It really is a conventional force tool for when you don't have a breacher and need to open a barricaded door. It's a bit more friendly than a bar mine.
So a pretty niche case. Much more niche now that conventional infantry are carrying suppressors.

 

[GR66]

It is starting to look like the MFOM is platform independent. The actual constant is the launch pod.

View attachment 92234

Oshkosh has now added it to its NMESIS ROGUE Fires autonomous JLTVs for the USMC.

The means that the JLTV can now launch Hero-120 Loitering Munitions, NSM/JSM missiles and everything that can be, or will be, packed in an MRLS pod. 6 of the original 227 mm rockets, 1 of the ATACMS, 2 of the PrSM family, including the LBASM and, prospectively 30 modernized long range 120 mm rockets, with and with out precision guidance kits.

The same vehicle can also launch a Tomahawk missile, which also exists in anti-ship form, out to a range of over 1600 km and is available today. From our neighbour. If they choose to sell it to us.

View attachment 92237View attachment 92238

Oshkosh Defense equips ROGUE-Fires autonomous vehicle with HIMARS munitions for long-range strike capability

Oshkosh Defense equips ROGUE-Fires autonomous vehicle with HIMARS rockets for long-range strike capability

armyrecognition.com

USMC Systems Command Provides Details on Long-Range Missile Battery - Naval News

USMC Systems Command shares more details and information on their Long-Range Missile Battery mounted on an unmanned JLTV 4x4 truck.

www.navalnews.com

What is the Maritime Strike Tomahawk cruise missile?

The Maritime Strike Tomahawk is designed to provide a naval anti-surface warfare capability to the long-serving land-attack cruise missile.

www.naval-technology.com

Marines Pick Loitering Munition To Arm Light Vehicles And Drone Boats

So-called "suicide drones" will give Marine units a new option for finding threats and engaging them precisely on land and at sea.

www.twz.com

So the RRCA could opt to mount their equipment on the MSVS family or possibly even the Zetros 4x4 of the LVM-L family. Or even on the back of a Ford F550.

Update on the USMC's "Long Range Fires" (LRF) Tomahawk missile launcher on the JLTV platform that was mentioned in the post above.

The U.S. Marine Corps’ Long Range Fires (LRF) launcher, built around a single-cell Mark 41 VLS cell for Tomahawk missiles on a ROGUE-Fires carrier vehicle, has been cancelled due to concerns over maneuverability in littoral and austere environments.

U.S. Marine Corps Abandons Tomahawk Missiles, Doubles Down on Extended Range NMESIS in FY2026 Budget - Naval News

The U.S. Marine Corps' Long Range Fires launcher, built around a single-cell Mark 41 VLS cell for Tomahawk missiles has been cancelled

www.navalnews.com

Instead the USMC is increasing its NMESIS (Naval Strike Missile) and HIMARS fleets.

 

[KevinB]

Update on the USMC's "Long Range Fires" (LRF) Tomahawk missile launcher on the JLTV platform that was mentioned in the post above.

U.S. Marine Corps Abandons Tomahawk Missiles, Doubles Down on Extended Range NMESIS in FY2026 Budget - Naval News

The U.S. Marine Corps' Long Range Fires launcher, built around a single-cell Mark 41 VLS cell for Tomahawk missiles has been cancelled

www.navalnews.com

Instead the USMC is increasing its NMESIS (Naval Strike Missile) and HIMARS fleets.

Does not help that JLTV got cancelled either

 

[PrairieFella]

Was this tomahawk system and good piece of kit? Makes sense that HIMARS can fill the gap.

 

[Furniture]

Does not help that JLTV got cancelled either

Doesn't help that automation is also crazy expensive compared to a Pvt driver, who can do basic maintenence and defend the kit with his rifle.

 

[KevinB]

Doesn't help that automation is also crazy expensive compared to a Pvt driver, who can do basic maintenence and defend the kit with his rifle.

And automation has some negative issues currently

 

[FJAG]

Doesn't help that automation is also crazy expensive compared to a Pvt driver, who can do basic maintenence and defend the kit with his rifle.

And automation has some negative issues currently

I have to admit that I prefer a #4 in the turret to do the loading. It gets rid of a lot of complex equipment with multiple failure points that take a high degree of technical skill to repair. On the other hand a defective #4 is easily swapped out in a matter of seconds by the # 5.

The cost trade-off is the initial cost of the auto-loader and its life-cycle repair costs vs the life cycle-costs of the #4 who ought basically to be a DP1 gunner or bombardier. Not knowing what the former costs makes it an academic argument.

I'm sitting on the fence but leaning #4.

 

[Underway]

What do folks think of the RUAG Cobra concept for 120mm.

Designed for the Piranah and fairly simple tech. Shoot and scoot with overhead cover when needed.

And the launch point of the mortar is relatively far from the troops loading reducing TBI risk.

 

[GR66]

What do folks think of the RUAG Cobra concept for 120mm.

Designed for the Piranah and fairly simple tech. Shoot and scoot with overhead cover when needed.

And the launch point of the mortar is relatively far from the troops loading reducing TBI risk.

I wonder about the logic of a weapon system on an armoured vehicle that requires you to remove the armour in order to use the system.

To me it makes sense to use a turreted mortar system on vehicles that are armoured and an open air system on light, unarmoured vehicles.

 

[FJAG]

What do folks thing of the RUAG Cobra concept for 120mm.

Not so much. The hatch has to be open for it to operate and it has that cockamamie loading system. The loader is at least as complex as the Moeljner which, at least, has a turret.

 

[Underway]

Not so much. The hatch has to be open for it to operate and it has that cockamamie loading system. The loader is at least as complex as the Moeljner which, at least, has a turret.

In its defence... Infantry want simple not exquisite. Seems kinda half way between the "regular mortar in a box that causes TBI" and "super expensive exquisite turret system".

I think the loading mechanism is clever honestly. It's very simple and not breach which is an advantage.

But yah, I see your concerns.

 

[Kirkhill]

Back on the Long Range Precision Fires front.

More developments on the HIMARS-AML platform.

AML, the Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher, has now split into two launchers CAML-M and CAML-H.

The CAML-M is based on the HIMARS FMTV but has an autonomous capability, flies in a CC-130 and carries two pods like the M270 and Chunmoo.
The CAML-H is based on the M1075 PLS and also has an autonomous capability.

“CAML is an autonomous/optionally crewed, highly mobile, air transportable, cross domain fires launcher with the potential to augment or replace existing Army launchers,” the service said.

“CAML reduces emplacement and displacement times, provides improved crew survivability, adds cross-country mobility, increases overall effectiveness, and allows commanders to weight the force appropriately during both offensive and defensive operations,” the Army later added.

For the CAML-H variant, the Army wants to integrate a launcher onto a M1075 Palletized Loading System tactical vehicle — or similar 15-ton class chassis — that can then fire the Tomahawk Land Attack Missile or the Patriot Advanced Capabilities Three (PAC-3) Missile Segment Enhancement interceptor. However, the service did not specify how many rounds each launcher should be able to hold.

“The CAML-H variant will be an Autonomous Self Resupplying System capable of autonomously reloading cannisters of missiles onto the CAML-H with minimal to no human intervention,” the Army added.

As for the smaller, CAML-M variant, the service is interested in using a Family of Medium Tactical Vehicle (FMTV) as the base to launch Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) Family of Munitions or the new Indirect Fire Protection Capability (IFPC) with AIM-9X interceptors.

“The CAML-M will be supported by an Autonomous Resupply Vehicle (ARV) capable of autonomously reloading pods/cannisters of missiles onto the CAML-M with minimal to no human intervention,” the service explained.

Army unveils plans to acquire two different sizes of autonomous launchers - Breaking Defense

The heavy variant would be based on a Palletized Loading System and fire either Tomahawk or PAC-3 missiles, while the medium-class launcher would use an FMTV to fire Multiple Launch Rocket System munitions or AIM-9X interceptors.

breakingdefense.com

Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher meets another program milestone

REDSTONE ARSENAL, Ala. — Mission success. Another pivotal stride was made by the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher as the combined team of the U.S. Army...

www.army.mil

Mysterious Guided Rocket Launcher Disguised In A Shipping Container At Fort Bragg Identified

The Army's top general in the Pacific recently touted how "boxes of rockets" hiding out in the open creates dilemmas for adversaries.

www.twz.com

Some of the HEMTT variants are CC-130 compatible.