Informing the Army’s Future Structure - CAMO Discussion

[McG]

How about hiring civilian PMs that have had some time in uniform and do have a sense of the operating environment?

That woul fit with the notion of rapid turnover in the ranks ... a desirable characteristic for a larger, lower cost force.

The problem with PM staff who are former military is that they forget they are no longer military and they start telling the military what it needs.

 

[ytz]

How about hiring civilian PMs that have had some time in uniform and do have a sense of the operating environment?

Most project managers are civilian at DND.

 

[ytz]

The problem with PM staff who are former military is that they forget they are no longer military and they start telling the military what it needs.

You just need strong PDs to counter this. After all they represent the sponsor.

Can't say I have has PMs think they know more than the PD. I have seen pushback on what the PM thinks is feasible or contractable. And I think that's fair.

 

[Kirkhill]

You just need strong PDs to counter this. After all they represent the sponsor.

Can't say I have has PMs think they know more than the PD. I have seen pushback on what the PM thinks is feasible or contractable. And I think that's fair.

A bit of tension is productive. If you have to argue your case everyday then you are less likely to be surprised when you do your final presentations.

 

[McG]

You just need strong PDs to counter this. After all they represent the sponsor.

That's easy to say but, outside of fighters and warships, most PDs are junior to their supporting PM and many are on on their first posting in the NCR.

Can't say I have has PMs think they know more than the PD.

I've seen every level from PM to ADM(Mat) at different times tell the CA what its needs are. When it happens at the top level, it leads to things like TAPV. At the lower levels, it can hold a project back by a year as the PD now needs to escalate the problem through their section.

 

[dapaterson]

The CFO telling the Army commander how many recovery vehicles he needs at Programme Management Board was not the flex he thought it was.

 

[KevinB]

You just need strong PDs to counter this. After all they represent the sponsor.

Can't say I have has PMs think they know more than the PD. I have seen pushback on what the PM thinks is feasible or contractable. And I think that's fair.

Interesting.

We have PM’s (Program) and PEO’s as Uniforms and Deputy’s as GS civilians.
The theory is that the Green suiters are in Command of acquisition efforts - with a civilian support staff. (albeit they all fall under an Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisitions, but Direct Report to the CG of T2COM - the combo of AFC and TRADOC )
Some civilians are Project Managers that fall (theoretically) under a PM (LTC or COL) under a 1* PEO, but at least in the Army and USASOC most Project Managers for equipment side stuff are a Maj, or for high profile things a LTC with a COL PM.
I don’t have a clue how Facilities etc stuff works.