Informing the Army’s Future Structure - CAMO Discussion

[Gordon Dundas/]

It's almost as if despite 58 years of pretending we are one CAF, there are still distinct differences between the elements...

Smarter people than me, have said for years that the CAF isn't one experience or culture. Even within Ottawa, there are vast differences in culture between commands, even when they share buildings/floors.

The day after the Hellyer reforms took place. Somebody pointed out that in actuality we had gone from 3 services to for all intensive purposes to 18 .
It didn't help that the both prior to that and after as well each of the services tended to live in their own little universes .

 

[FJAG]

This is all ideal, and it can work. But if we go back in the conversation to the proposal that we fill the PM positions with current or retired LCols, that idea creates problems for the junior & mid-range majors who we assign to PD jobs.

Sorry I missed that point. Again harkening back to my one and only kick at that job, I have to say I'm dead set against the idea of appointing current or retired LCols (or above) as PMs. PMs have both the training and experience at the job to get good at what they do. They're experts (or ought to be) in their field which is vastly different from what line officers and even logisticians etc learned and practiced throughout their careers. That's why there is a PM and a PD in the first place - to bring together the two required fields into one team. There might be the odd exception of a retired LCol who has the experience and talent to be a decent PM, but on average, across the system, I don't think so.

There are both marginal PMs and certainly marginal PD majors in the system. That's just the law of averages. What matters is that leadership on both sides develops or selects the right people for the respective PM and PD roles. I don't think I'd ever be a capable PM because I just didn't know the project management side that well. I got a fundamental understanding of it. Some of that was small scale civilian experience but the military side of it was mostly just OJT.

I do agree on one thing in a way. I think PDs need to be LCols except for the most routine projects. Being a PD means that you have the knowledge of how your line of business works at all levels, the ability to direct a business analyst and enough pull in the organization to be able to get the information you need to build the solution and the ability to push the business transformation needed to implement the solution. With respect, major is just a bit too low for that. I was over ranked as Class B colonel but major was just too low. They were capable in delivering legal work, but simply didn't have the experience of how the whole business structure operated and what the possible solutions were. (And let me tell you that nothing f**ks up the options for niche business IT project delivery than the need to create a bilingual interface - OFTS multilingual legal software is virtually nonexistent)

 

[FJAG]

Everyone talks about planning contingency activities; few seemed to do it.

Leaving my cynicism aside, the one year I was "budget guy", things went well and it was a tight ship. Not because of me, but because the (civilian, full-time) formation compt kept an eye on everyone. That right there I believe is the secret to at least preventing fiscal screw-ups. Compt can't stop units from spending money stupidly and haphazardly, of course.

Boy, I agree with that. The one time I actually had what I call "the fin guy," on board, money just worked well. I have a great respect for folks that can say to me "you can't do that but here's a way that you can go and still meet your objective." A lot of folks don't have that talent on their own.

 

[Kilted]

Here we go...

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I'm looking forward to see how this works. Battle School courses are going to use Class A instructors who belong to 2 Div and will be using unit equipment and facilities controlled by 2 Div when they themselves are a seperate Division level formation. So as opposed to Units talking directly to Battle School via Brigade HQ if necessary, they now have to go all the way up to Division HQ and across, and back down, for cases even when Battle School and whichever unit might even be operating at the same building.

 

[PrairieFella]

I'm looking forward to see how this works. Battle School courses are going to use Class A instructors who belong to 2 Div and will be using unit equipment and facilities controlled by 2 Div when they themselves are a seperate Division level formation. So as opposed to Units talking directly to Battle School via Brigade HQ if necessary, they now have to go all the way up to Division HQ and across, and back down, for cases even when Battle School and whichever unit might even be operating at the same building.

HOpefully part of the reforms is BSLs get allotments of their own kit - at least basic stuff like comms equipment and small arms. I can see what youre talking about being a nightmare for things like drivers courses though.

 

[Kilted]

HOpefully part of the reforms is BSLs get allotments of their own kit - at least basic stuff like comms equipment and small arms. I can see what youre talking about being a nightmare for things like drivers courses though.

Well, we would have to have the weapons to do that. It seems every year all our machine guns pulled away for RST and then most of them get broken and sent away and we get them back in May in time to give them back to RST.

 

[PrairieFella]

Well, we would have to have the weapons to do that. It seems every year all our machine guns pulled away for RST and then most of them get broken and sent away and we get them back in May in time to give them back to RST.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here - is that a local gun plumber issue? Our reserve unit has over a dozen GPMGs and theyre always promptly repaired/inspected with little incident.

 

[MilEME09]

HOpefully part of the reforms is BSLs get allotments of their own kit - at least basic stuff like comms equipment and small arms. I can see what youre talking about being a nightmare for things like drivers courses though.

some already do, I know BSL here has there own weapons for BMQs, radios they burrow, but thats ARes life, and the project for ARes tactical radios isn't funded right now so who knows when that will be fixed. The battle schools are becoming massive establishments compared to their old selves. Unfortunately it is also sucking up most of the instructors in the brigades who have the time to teach. It will take a few years to shake out a think but if properly supported I think it will be a benefit to all.