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Informing the Army’s Future Structure

Well in hindsight, I’m not sure that was a bad thing…. Kind of like letting Patton keep moving East…



1.5m casualties. Could have been higher if we’d been willing to escalate.

Not our call. The real question is what were the Chinese willing to expend.

In 1950 China had a population of 552,000,000 - 1.5 mio represents 0.27% of the total or 0.54% of the male population
The Canadian spend would be 102,000 out of 38,000.000. Getting up towards Ukrainian numbers.
 
Regarding Bill Slim's view of various special forces, there's a considerable difference between having a small-ish force of specialists employed on operations requiring their level of competence, and tying thousands of potential junior leaders up in airborne and commando formations that mostly wait around for the next big operation.
 
Regarding Bill Slim's view of various special forces, there's a considerable difference between having a small-ish force of specialists employed on operations requiring their level of competence, and tying thousands of potential junior leaders up in airborne and commando formations that mostly wait around for the next big operation.

This.

I remember working with a sniper from 3 RCR Recce Pl who had spent a few years on the Hill and with CSOR.

He was helping us in Sigs Pl improve our shooting skills and some of the guys thought we'd be doing the cool "door kicker stuff... we instead had quite a few weeks of TOETs, dry firing, and Principles of Marksmanship reviews. Whenever he heard a grumble, he would retort "basic skills, repeated to perfection, are what the doorkickers do. Anyone thinking otherwise is a poser or a shitty doorkicker."

And wouldn't you know. When we did the repetitive basic stuff well, we were much happier better at the harder, complex stuff.

Now here we see the conundrum of specialized, role based, forces. Do we have a force that does the basics extremely well to fatigue of repetition and see what they can do when task comes; or,

Do we have a bunch of bespoke capabilities that don't necessarily work well when they Voltron together?

Worse still is when one capability is depleted and you cannot reconstitute from other capabilities without retooling and retraining.
 
They should never have been our ‘allies’ in the first place. Two nations invaded poland in 1939, we only declared war on one to ‘guarantee their sovereignty’.

That war would have been short, a couple A-bombs at the worst and all the genocides of the communists after that point prevented. Likely over 60-100 million peoples lives could have been saved (between direct communist genocides, the arms they smuggled to the various rebel groups around the world, etc.) the prevention of the nuclear arms race (nukes would still exist but not as much of a need to build monstrous arsenals) and a much freer world today.

Obviously speculation, but we made a massive mistake not carrying on to Moscow.

What was the capability in late 1945? The United States dropped two atomic bombs on Japan in August 1945, three months after the surrender of Germany. That depleted their ready arsenal of nuclear weapons, though they did manufacture a small stock (nine or so) by the time of the first Bikini Atoll tests the following year. There was a "plan" in 1945 for the possible use of nuclear weapons against the USSR; it called for the obliteration of twenty Soviet cities. Of course, it was conveniently leaked to the Soviets. But, even if the Americans had a few spare atomic bombs sitting around, would they have made any difference to the Soviets (or more specifically Stalin)? What's a few hundred thousand deaths more or the destruction of a few more Russian cities? They had just endured years of struggle that, even to this day, is remarkable in the losses as well as a national rallying point (The Great Patriotic War).
 
Regarding Bill Slim's view of various special forces, there's a considerable difference between having a small-ish force of specialists employed on operations requiring their level of competence, and tying thousands of potential junior leaders up in airborne and commando formations that mostly wait around for the next big operation.

Sometimes, sadly, this quote is used to justify poor levels of performance by 'standard units', as opposed to a call to action to up their game. The average rifle battalion in Burma, for example, had many of the qualities of a commando unit by the time they'd been in action for awhile. However FWIW...

"Armies do not win wars by means of a few bodies of super-soldiers but by the average quality of their standard units. Anything, whatever short cuts to victory it may promise, which thus weakens the army spirit, is dangerous. Commanders who have used these special forces have found, as we did in Burma, that they have another grave disadvantage- they can be employed actively for only restricted periods. Then they demand to be taken out of the battle to recuperate, while normal formations are expected to have no such limitations to their employment. In Burma, the time spent in action with the enemy by special forces was only a fraction of that endured by the normal divisions, and it must be remembered that risk is danger multiplied by time. Private armies, and for that matter private air forces- are expensive, wasteful, and unnecessary."

- Slim, Defeat into Victory
 
Jumping in with another Napkin.

CJOC commands 6 domestic Joint Task Forces

One of them, Joint Task Force North, commanded by a BGen of the RCAF appears to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the JFACC/1Cdn Air Div/CANR/TSRR, an MGen of the RCAF.

Two of them, Joint Task Forces Atlantic and Pacific, are commanded by RAdm(MGen) of the RCN who are also MarLant/HSRR and MarPac/VSRR. These two seem to split the duties of JFMCC between them.

The other three, Joint Task Forces West, Central and Eastern are commanded by BGens of the Army who are also commanders of 2, 3 and 4 Divs.
JFLCC is apparently the MGen in charge of 1 Cdn Div HQ in Kingston.

My thought -

1. Pull the 1,2 and 5 CMBG and 6 CCSB from their regional divisions and explicitly put them under the direct command of 1 Cdn Div. They don't need to move. They just need to know that they have one common boss driving them all to one common standard.

2. Convert 1 Wing, which is collocated in Kingston with 1 Cdn Div, into a 4th tactical formation of 1 Cdn Div by attaching 3 RCR/PPCLI/R22eR to the Wing and tightening the relations with 408, 430 and 450 Sqns. 1 Cdn Div then owns one heli-portable light Brigade/Wing.

3. With the 6 Infantry Battalions, 3 Armoured Regiments, 4 Arty Regiments and 4 Engineer Regiments then 1 Cdn Div also has 3 Brigade Groups similar to 4 CMBG if lighter in armour and numbers.

I'm pretty sure I have seen something like this shot down before...
 
Jumping in with another Napkin.

CJOC commands 6 domestic Joint Task Forces

One of them, Joint Task Force North, commanded by a BGen of the RCAF appears to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the JFACC/1Cdn Air Div/CANR/TSRR, an MGen of the RCAF.

Two of them, Joint Task Forces Atlantic and Pacific, are commanded by RAdm(MGen) of the RCN who are also MarLant/HSRR and MarPac/VSRR. These two seem to split the duties of JFMCC between them.

The other three, Joint Task Forces West, Central and Eastern are commanded by BGens of the Army who are also commanders of 2, 3 and 4 Divs.
JFLCC is apparently the MGen in charge of 1 Cdn Div HQ in Kingston.

My thought -

1. Pull the 1,2 and 5 CMBG and 6 CCSB from their regional divisions and explicitly put them under the direct command of 1 Cdn Div. They don't need to move. They just need to know that they have one common boss driving them all to one common standard.

2. Convert 1 Wing, which is collocated in Kingston with 1 Cdn Div, into a 4th tactical formation of 1 Cdn Div by attaching 3 RCR/PPCLI/R22eR to the Wing and tightening the relations with 408, 430 and 450 Sqns. 1 Cdn Div then owns one heli-portable light Brigade/Wing.

3. With the 6 Infantry Battalions, 3 Armoured Regiments, 4 Arty Regiments and 4 Engineer Regiments then 1 Cdn Div also has 3 Brigade Groups similar to 4 CMBG if lighter in armour and numbers.

I'm pretty sure I have seen something like this shot down before...
You make perfect, logical sense with your tactical grouping.

However, (like most things we prioritize in the CAF) you didn't factor in the geographical, political, and cultural impacts that would see it rot on the vine.

There are far too many sacred cows in the way for your idea to work.
 

You sure you're not submitting leads for the Telegraph?

The UK is not getting enough bang for its defence buck. Let’s learn from Poland

The Army’s serviceable tanks now number in only the tens. Yet Warsaw is rearming quickly, at lower cost
EDWARD STRINGER22 July 2023 • 8:27pm

Polish defence minister Mariusz Blaszczak oversees the delivery of the first company of U.S.-made Abrams M1A1 tanks

The Polish defence minister Mariusz Blaszczak inspects the delivery of the first company of U.S. made Abrams M1A1 tanks last month CREDIT: CEZARY ASZKIELOWICZ/Agencja Wyborcza
Ben Wallace is to bow out, having had a good war. The pivot of that reputation is that he got the big question right: he saw what was unfolding in Russia in 2022 and reinforced Ukraine in a meaningful way. Not well known is the force of the opposition he overcame from some of our allies – and our own officials – who feared Russian escalation.
It is also true that he made a strong case for defence and got extra funds from a Treasury not minded to be generous. At the same time, he has championed modernisation of the military and been critical of the failings of the Ministry of Defence.
The ability to ride these two positions is probably why Wallace has maintained his status at the pinnacle of ConservativeHome’s table of ministers’ approval ratings: he is an insider/outsider, simultaneously credited with being decisive on defence while usefully distancing himself from the MoD’s bureaucratic shortcomings. A clever trick, but is it fair given the threadbare state of the UK’s forces?
One can give credit while also asking some difficult questions. Wallace has now been the Secretary of State for four years. Can one continue to point the accusing finger at something you have owned for that long? The MoD and the three Services continue to grind through ever more money even as the front line shrinks.
The importance of supporting Ukraine has muted any questioning of what that effort has revealed. It appears that the Army’s front line had serviceable tanks and artillery numbered in the low to medium tens; not the hundreds that the “fourth largest defence budget in the world” might be assumed to have bought. Who was supposed to be husbanding this equipment? Did the MoD know its parlous state?
In 2019 Wallace is known to have put the new RAF Chief on notice to address as his priority the chronic failings of the Military Flying Training System. When he left four years later they were worse. Wallace’s Command Paper emphasises a persistent presence overseas. Yet the RAF has prematurely scrapped its most useful air-lifter – the Hercules – as deleting a whole fleet reduces support costs.
The Royal Navy had declared plans to put more frigates to sea in future. It had been “radical” in its reforms of Navy HQ. But it has run out of money for the ship refits, and the fleet has had to shrink further to afford the plan.
Despite all the evidence from arming Ukraine about the need for weapons stockpiles, it has taken 17 months to place a contract for more ammunition. Logistics and supportability concerns remain across the board – we operate very small fleets of expensive, bespoke kit. None of this has been lost on our allies, who raise eyebrows in our direction.
As both the Sheldon report into the Ajax fighting vehicle programme and the House of Commons defence committee’s report into acquisition demonstrate, an unreformed MoD exhibits labyrinthine, unaccountable processes that overcomplicate and extend programmes at hideous expense.
The game for funds played between the Services causes many delays and itself consumes much of the money
. In contrast, the Polish buy of an extra 980 tanks should complete within four years, in 2026, or just before we take delivery of the first of only 148 tanks. This is after a programme that will have taken between 16 and 25 years – it is hard to be definite given the continual programmatic rejuggling.
Nor are the new forms of warfare we are now seeing in Ukraine news. The MoD’s own think-tanks were forecasting such advances in integrated warfare – via drones and automation, cyber, data and cloud-based computing – since before Wallace took over. But it is not in the interests of any Service to volunteer to lead the changes necessary to achieve the integrated force that our emerging doctrine calls for. We have sat on imaginative blueprints for three years; the Ukrainians have radically reformed in one.
The UK’s intelligence agencies are racing forward with the digital possibilities that moving to cloud-based computing confers. Defence Digital, a punchy rebrand of what was previously the MoD’s Information Systems & Services, continues to punch below its weight.
There are legitimate questions over what the Army is for in the current epoch, and so how it should be configured to fight a modern war. It is understood that the Army still hasn’t furnished a compelling vision in answer – which is one reason it has not made the case for being bigger. And the Treasury can point to the Poles and credibly ask why we struggle to get a single division from 70,000 troops when they get four from the same number, and from an overall budget 40 per cent of our own.
Wallace’s MoD appears to have accepted without question that a properly equipped unit of force will always cost a certain amount, and so the only way to get more force is to demand a bigger budget, or cut the number of units. Hence his comment about not building a bigger army only to arm it with “pitchforks”. We could, instead, ask why our allies appear to get more bang for their buck.
So the question that arises from last week’s refreshed Command Paper is not necessarily related to the detail therein. It might be to ask whether Wallace has found it easier to challenge the MoD as a semi-outsider rather than grip it firmly and force the level of painful reform it so badly needs.
Whoever his successor is can build on the positives of Wallace’s reign, but there are some fundamental problems that have hardly been touched at all.

Air Marshal Edward Stringer is a former director general of the Defence Academy and a senior fellow at Policy Exchange
 
To be honest, other than the size of the UK MoD budget relative to the world, that paper could have been been written for most NATO members.

The Byzantine bureaucracies that have grown like cancer inside of most of them have eaten up significant amounts of the budgets, amounts that cannot afford to be lost from capital acquisition programs and O&M budgets to support the military.

Ironically most of those structures have been created to streamline or optimize the forces. However duplication, infighting and empire building have become their true purpose, and the civilian government ’oversight’ has been negligible or just as culpable.
 
What lessons are the Poles learning from Ukraine?

In parallel with Anakonda 23, Operation Broken Acacia was organized in the 12th Mechanized Brigade in Szczecin, the aim of which was to present a model structure and equipment of Army small units going from squad to platoon to company.

The seminar included theoretical classes, during which participants got acquainted with the proposed Troop Leading Procedures a dynamic process used by commanders of small subunits, thanks to which they can effectively and quickly plan, organize and execute operations. The proposed procedures, published in 2019 but with training only starting earlier this year, were used in the practical part of the demonstration.

The conclusion drawn from the operation was that small motorized infantry units should be autonomous, mobile, and well-armed. Those findings should not be a surprise for anyone tracking the ongoing war in Ukraine.

“We present new solutions resulting from the analysis of the current military and geopolitical situation, taking into account the new elements of armament that are or will be included in the state of motorized subunits,” said Lt. Col. Maciej Szpak, commander of the 1st Motorized Infantry Battalion of the 12th Mechanized Brigade.

During the seminar there was a discussion about motorized infantry. For that kind of unit, vehicles are used not so much for combat as for transport, because “move soldiers to a specific place and, if necessary, provide them with fire support. In the mechanized infantry it is exactly the opposite. The burden of fighting lies with the crews of the vehicles,” explained Warrant Officer Adrian Maciejak, a soldier of the 1st Infantry Brigade of the 12th Brigade, responsible for preparing the practical part of the seminar.


Mechanized Brigades with Motorized Battalions in their structure. The Mech Troops fighting their vehicles, presumably en masse. The Motorized Troops ranging widely in platoons and companies. Light and Heavy troops in the same Brigade.
 
What lessons are the Poles learning from Ukraine?



Mechanized Brigades with Motorized Battalions in their structure. The Mech Troops fighting their vehicles, presumably en masse. The Motorized Troops ranging widely in platoons and companies. Light and Heavy troops in the same Brigade.
I think you are reading too much into that article.
I don't see any evidence of the Poles moving to mixed Bde's - just the fact that Mech IFV operation is different than Motorized - and the need for the motorized units to be highly mobile due to not being able to rely on Armor.
 
What lessons are the Poles learning from Ukraine?




Mechanized Brigades with Motorized Battalions in their structure. The Mech Troops fighting their vehicles, presumably en masse. The Motorized Troops ranging widely in platoons and companies. Light and Heavy troops in the same Brigade.
The only difference is that a motorized Bn is in a Rosomak and the Mechanized Bn is in their new Borsuk. They actually receive the same training from the poles I spoke to.
 
I think you are reading too much into that article.
I don't see any evidence of the Poles moving to mixed Bde's - just the fact that Mech IFV operation is different than Motorized - and the need for the motorized units to be highly mobile due to not being able to rely on Armor.

Reforger era Soviet MRD

Two regiments on wheels (BTRs), 1 on tracks (BMPs) and one Tank regiment.

1690411054444.png
 
A Division is significantly larger than a Bde…

True -
But -
Didn't I hear somebody arguing that there was no room for Stryker Brigades in an Armoured Division? That Wheels and Tracks don't mix?
 
True -
But -
Didn't I hear somebody arguing that there was no room for Stryker Brigades in an Armoured Division? That Wheels and Tracks don't mix?
Still do.

I think the thing with the Armored Divisions in the 2030 structure is based on - "Shit. We've got seven Active and 2 ARNG Stryker BCTs now - what the hell are we going to do with them? ... What do you think of a Stryker Division? ... No...? ... Okay. Anyone have any other ideas?"

:giggle:
 
Like @FJAG I'm of the opinion that wheels and tracks don’t mesh well.
However a Div is big enough that the addition of a Stryker Bde into the mix isn’t as big an issue as mixing a Bde with wheels and tracks.

We have rehashed the flawed premise of the Stryker for anything but OOTW for a Maneuver entity. It’s an armored taxi, and while the 30mm cannon upgrade is making it more of a viable taxi for certain combat operations it’s not an IFV.
 
We have rehashed the flawed premise of the Stryker for anything but OOTW for a Maneuver entity. It’s an armored taxi, and while the 30mm cannon upgrade is making it more of a viable taxi for certain combat operations it’s not an IFV.
I'm going to betray my ignorance here, but the one thing I've always heard/read is that armour is for taking opposed ground, infantry for holding it.

Granted- A Stryker/ LAV Bde is not what you want for mounted maneuver warfare in a peer fight, but is that fully the same thing as not good for anything but OOTW? It's never going to be the hammer, but that infantry mass coupled with pretty good tactical and operational mobility, properly resourced with artillery and combat support (disproportion amount of heavy weapons enabled vice light infantry) seems like it would give you a pretty potent defensive / deterrent formation to be used as a mobile anvil.
 
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