Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Now you're just quoting medieval history

See first part of my handle: "Old". I am pretty medieval.

P.S.: You do know that Hearts of Oak you quote refers to the wonderful year ... of 1759.

 

[daftandbarmy]

See first part of my handle: "Old". I am pretty medieval.

P.S.: You do know that Hearts of Oak you quote refers to the wonderful year ... of 1759.

That last time anything made sense

 

[FJAG]

My latest ponderings have me envisioning something like this:

Not bad - and not just because it follows much of my own line of thinking.

Two small thoughts.

Each of the two armoured divisions needs a strong divisional cavalry regiment in addition to the two brigades.

The artillery battalion in Latvia should have three batteries rather than three troops.

 

[PuckChaser]

How is the Defence of Canada Division going to be structured? It sounds like the ten CBGs are staying. One division commander and headquarters is going to manage ten brigades? Doesn't seem efficient.

Good news, the CBGs aren't real Brigades so 1 Div HQ is perfect.

 

[FJAG]

Good news, the CBGs aren't real Brigades so 1 Div HQ is perfect.

If the increase to 100,000 PRes is for real then they will be real brigades in size at least (and quite possibly bigger).

This line from "Inflection Point" continues to be my primary concern that things will not go well.

The CA must also develop ARes self-sufficiency in terms of training, operations, and sustainment to accomplish the needed capacity to support modernization efforts.

 

[PuckChaser]

100,000 is a pipe dream. We cant even kit out 50,000.

 

[dapaterson]

100,000 is a pipe dream. We cant even kit out 50,000.

So starting to plan now, to align intake, training capacity, and put in place mechanisms to acquire the necessary clothing (and other equipment and materiel) would be prudent.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If the increase to 100,000 PRes is for real then they will be real brigades in size at least (and quite possibly bigger).

This line from "Inflection Point" continues to be my primary concern that things will not go well.

So they're assuming that the ARes is not self-sufficient? After all that time, money, personnel and material that's been invested over the decades?

Geez... I wonder who's going to lose their jobs in Ottawa etc over that poor result

 

[Halifax Tar]

And, yes, I did freeze my butt in Valcartier in those days, and I can also attest that freezing your butt - while all wet - on an open bridge in mid Atlantic in winter is not glorious either.

Had an OOW leave a look out on the wings too long on a stormy winter night east of NFLD. Closed the bridgewing door and wouldn't let the lad in to warm up at all.

We the CCT folks had some work to get him warmed up and then we helo'd him ashore. The OOW, well last I heard he doesn't drive ships anymore.

 

[ueo]

Had an OOW leave a look out on the wings too long on a stormy winter night east of NFLD. Closed the bridgewing door and wouldn't let the lad in to warm up at all.

We the CCT folks had some work to get him warmed up and then we helo'd him ashore. The OOW, well last I heard he doesn't drive ships anymore.

had the same shite hawks in the army!

 

[KevinB]

100,000 is a pipe dream. We cant even kit out 10k Reg Force properly.

FIFY

 

[Kirkhill]

Agreed, but creating a Reserve force which is not "a Militia in name only" is going to be expensive, both politically and economically. I agree with what many have said here: it needs to be equiped like it will fight.

Others have already said it: Corps '86 anybody?

But do all the volunteers have to be fully equipped?

If we have 20 tank volunteers do we need 5 tanks? Or can we manage with 2 tanks and 5 crews?

 

[FJAG]

But do all the volunteers have to be fully equipped?

If we have 20 tank volunteers do we need 5 tanks? Or can we manage with 2 tanks and 5 crews?

As always, that depends on the purpose of that particular element of the reserves.

If that element is only part of a training organization whose purpose is to train tankers and can sequence the training of 5 crews with just 2 tanks then fine.

If that element is part of an armoured regiment whose purpose is to provide a fully trained and deployable armoured regiment to expand a deployed force with a full regiment, or to sustain one depleted by personnel and tank casualties, then all five tanks are essential.

Context matters.

 

[Kirkhill]

As always, that depends on the purpose of that particular element of the reserves.

If that element is only part of a training organization whose purpose is to train tankers and can sequence the training of 5 crews with just 2 tanks then fine.

If that element is part of an armoured regiment whose purpose is to provide a fully trained and deployable armoured regiment to expand a deployed force with a full regiment, or to sustain one depleted by personnel and tank casualties, then all five tanks are essential.

Context matters.

100,000 reservists.
2 Divisions or 2 Corps?
Or 2 Corps tasked with raising 2 Divisions?

 

[FJAG]

100,000 reservists.
2 Divisions or 2 Corps?
Or 2 Corps tasked with raising 2 Divisions?

In a real army or the phantom Canadian army in someone's feeble mind.

On a thumbnail I believe in small divisions (10-12,000) or so. Others look at 15,000 to 18,000. But that's if your talking something intended to be deployed as an entity.

So to thumbnail it again, a corps would have two or more divisions plus corps troops so around 25,000 to 45,000 troops.

I'm having troubles conceiving of what's in their heads - my guess is its more in the nature of Milareas and Mildistricts than corps or divs. I could see a district being able to handle around 5,000 so in (around 7 battalions of 700 each) which gives you around 20 districts in lets say 6 areas.

 

[dapaterson]

In a real army or the phantom Canadian army in someone's feeble mind.

On a thumbnail I believe in small divisions (10-12,000) or so. Others look at 15,000 to 18,000. But that's if your talking something intended to be deployed as an entity.

So to thumbnail it again, a corps would have two or more divisions plus corps troops so around 25,000 to 45,000 troops.

I'm having troubles conceiving of what's in their heads - my guess is its more in the nature of Milareas and Mildistricts than corps or divs. I could see a district being able to handle around 5,000 so in (around 7 battalions of 700 each) which gives you around 20 districts in lets say 6 areas.

No. A BN of 700 needs to be trained soldiers.

So 100k (if all Army) might yield 80k trained, but you'll need a solid 10k or so to train and manage the pers production pipeline, so you have 70K to play with.

 

[Kirkhill]

No. A BN of 700 needs to be trained soldiers.

So 100k (if all Army) might yield 80k trained, but you'll need a solid 10k or so to train and manage the pers production pipeline, so you have 70K to play with.

Couldn't we also take into consideration different readiness levels and different NTMs for different classes of reservists? Some could be on longer lead times than others.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Couldn't we also take into consideration different readiness levels and different NTMs for different classes of reservists? Some could be on longer lead times than others.

There is zero readiness if there is zero commitment in terms of a contractual/ financial obligation.

You get what you pay for, especially in the ARes world.

 

[Kirkhill]

There is zero readiness if there is zero commitment in terms of a contractual/ financial obligation.

You get what you pay for, especially in the ARes world.

Mate, accepted. Nothing works if no change happens. I stipulate change.