Informing the Army’s Future Structure

[Kirkhill]

Go'way bys.

Logistics and movements is to be ignored. It really has no impact on operations. Lets just blow shit up, because that soooooo cool!

Coming soon to a convoy near you?

Army closing down 'leader-follower' robotic truck development, eyeing commercial solutions - Breaking Defense

Although the service has awarded contracts to wind down leader-follower development and give the experimental trucks back to soldiers, a separate office has launched a prototyping competition.

breakingdefense.com

And from March of this year...

Essential Deliveries: Getting Vital Supplies to Troops Using Autonomous Vehicles - Canada.ca

The Essential Deliveries challenge is seeking solutions for autonomous vehicle technologies for use in the transport of military supplies including food, water, and ammunition. This page includes all details regarding the specific challenge.

www.canada.ca

 

[Kirkhill]

Meanwhile Rheinmetall....

Just in case there are other old farts like me that don't know what's going on. The realm of the possible.

Rheinmetall Canada - Latest news Rheinmetall presents state-of-the-art defence solutions at CANSEC 2023

Here, you will find the latest press releases. Rheinmetall presents innovative solutions at CANSEC to give the Canadian Armed Forces the competitive edge they need to succeed in any operational environment.

www.rheinmetall.ca

Autonomous MRZRs and Argos

Rheinmetall Canada - Latest news Rheinmetall supplies AI-powered navigation system for UK MoD’s Project Theseus 2.2

Here, you will find the latest press releases. Rheinmetall augments the Polaris MRZR D4 ultra-light tactical vehicle with the Rheinmetall PATH Autonomy Kit, an AI-powered navigation system.

www.rheinmetall.ca

Mission Master SP: Compact and stealthy​

The Rheinmetall Mission Master SP is a low-profile A-UGV engineered to provide assistance and reduce danger to dismounted soldiers in a wide range of missions, including high-risk situations. With its low-signature electric motor, the Mission Master SP excels in any scenario requiring stealth and agility.

This A-UGV is built for forward and last-mile resupply missions, silent watch operations, and carriage of light payloads, such as section sensors and weapon systems. Compact and highly mobile, the Mission Master SP can follow troops as a buddy, letting soldiers get closer to the enemy without being seen or heard.

Water Treatment System from the ASUWPS program:
BluMetric

Project Case Studies - BluMetric

www.blumetric.ca

SolarSigmaShield

SolarSigmaShield - Google Search

Satellite On The Move - 10 years in development so far?

Elbit to Supply SOTM Systems to Canada

Elbit Systems announced that it was awarded a contract by Rheinmetall Canada Inc. to provide ELSAT 2100 Satellite-on-the-Move (SOTM) systems for use by the Canadian Armed Forces. The contract value, which is in an amount that is not material to Elbit Systems, will be performed over an 18-month...

www.israeldefense.co.il

Land Vehicle Crew Training System - got a name in June 2022 (FORC3)

FORC3 Announced as Team Name for LVCTS Project by Rheinmetall and Canadian Partners – Vanguard

vanguardcanada.com

Joint Fires Modernization Project

HattoriX

Rattler-XR

Laser Target Designator Rattler XR - Instro

The Rattler(TM) XR is a hand held network enabled laser target designator. Connect to sensor/network to share data and video.

instro.com

Torch-XTM

https://www.elbitsystems-uk.com/what-we-do/land/c4isr/command-control/torch-xtm-hq.pdf

Night Vision System Modernization

AION-C​

• An advanced, handheld lightweight day and night thermal imager with integrated laser tracking capability, AION-C is a powerful observation system with an extremely accurate Laser Rangefinder, internal GPS system, IR Pointer, Digital Magnetic Compass and IMU providing mobile target acquisition capabilities.

And CHER (Combined Heavy Equipment Replacement) continues apace.....

JCB High-Mobility Engineer Excavator Type I

The High-Mobility Engineer Excavator Type I (HMEE-I) is a backhoe loader developed by JCB. The vehicle can carry a two-man…

www.army-technology.com

 

[markppcli]

Members of all three messes joined the Bn, with a concentration at the Cpl and MCpl level (but also Lt/Capt and Sgts). They joined the Bn several months prior to the exercise and were incorporated into various sub-units including the combat support platoons.

Any idea if there’s a movement to formalize this ie: Royal Montreal Regiment supports A Coy 3 R22R ?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Any idea if there’s a movement to formalize this ie: Royal Montreal Regiment supports A Coy 3 R22R ?

My uneducated guess is that this wonderful example of A Res and Reg F collaboration was a temporary anomaly, resulting from some good leaders on both sides committed to shared goals and figuring out how to make it work.

As a result, it probably won't survive the next posting season/ change of command...

 

[IKnowNothing]

Scenario for the field

In order to meet the demands of an expanded eFP Latvia while maintaining 3 stage MRP and symmetrical CMBG's the RCAC does the following:

• Each of the 3 current RegF Armoured Regiments is reduced 2 Squadrons
• The PY's trimmed are assigned to the freshly re-activated 8th Canadian Hussars
• 8th Canadian Hussars become a type 55 tank regiment tasked with force generating one ready force 19 tank squadron via 3 stage inter-regimental MRP
• LdSH, RCD, 12 BDC become wheeled Cavalry regiments, rotating with their CMBG's
• One each tank and Cavalry squadron set+ spares will be kept in Latvia, with the Cav manned, the tank 50% manned/50% fly over

In order to make credible Cavalry squadrons CA does a sole source UOR to GDLS-C to get enough of a new LAV 6 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle to create 6 full LAV based 19 veh squadrons (pooling with LRSS).

Q1- What does your LAV 6 CFV look like? 105mm/ 35mm + twin ATGM, manned turret/ unmanned turret, Moog RwIP- your call
Q2- Does your Sqn have 2x LRSS Troop + 2x CFV troop, 4x mixed troops, or a hybrid.
Q3- Given a relatively free hand- 38 vehicles, 16 must be LRSS, and up to 2 new LAV variants, what does your regiment look like?


Further

Canadian eFP contribution is expanded to 1 full LAV Bn, 1x Cav Sqn, 1x Tank Squadron (50/50 manned/flyover). PAXM provides a launch unit to all 9 Inf platoons, Full Bn AT platoon with TOW2 riding TAPV's.

Q4- Can we maintain a corresponding artillery and engineering contribution ratio and incorporate manning the SHORAD UOR?
Q5- Based on on the contributions listed here, what do you keep, what do you cut, and how do you organize?
Q6- How would you classify the resulting force? Reinforced BG, Bde- ?

 

[KevinB]

Scenario for the field

In order to meet the demands of an expanded eFP Latvia while maintaining 3 stage MRP and symmetrical CMBG's the RCAC does the following:

• Each of the 3 current RegF Armoured Regiments is reduced 2 Squadrons
• The PY's trimmed are assigned to the freshly re-activated 8th Canadian Hussars

Why?

• 8th Canadian Hussars become a type 55 tank regiment tasked with force generating one ready force 19 tank squadron via 3 stage inter-regimental MRP

Why VIII CH? Other then Cold War nostalgia

• LdSH, RCD, 12 BDC become wheeled Cavalry regiments, rotating with their CMBG's

The entire premise of a LAV Cav force is kind of silly at this junction without totally reinventing what that means.

• One each tank and Cavalry squadron set+ spares will be kept in Latvia, with the Cav manned, the tank 50% manned/50% fly over

In order to make credible Cavalry squadrons CA does a sole source UOR to GDLS-C to get enough of a new LAV 6 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle to create 6 full LAV based 19 veh squadrons (pooling with LRSS).

Credible Cav squadrons to work with thr Leo2 would be CV90 or Bradley (or the OMV eventual [maybe] replacement)

Q1- What does your LAV 6 CFV look like? 105mm/ 35mm + twin ATGM, manned turret/ unmanned turret, Moog RwIP- your call

105mm in wheeled vehicle has already been tried and discarded.

Q2- Does your Sqn have 2x LRSS Troop + 2x CFV troop, 4x mixed troops, or a hybrid.

Hybrid because one needs to consider what Cav/Armored Recce even means theses days.

Q3- Given a relatively free hand- 38 vehicles, 16 must be LRSS, and up to 2 new LAV variants, what does your regiment look like?

Why 16 LRSS?

Further

Canadian eFP contribution is expanded to 1 full LAV Bn, 1x Cav Sqn, 1x Tank Squadron (50/50 manned/flyover). PAXM provides a launch unit to all 9 Inf platoons, Full Bn AT platoon with TOW2 riding TAPV's.

The fact you said both TAPV and TowII in this context worries me.

Q4- Can we maintain a corresponding artillery and engineering contribution ratio and incorporate manning the SHORAD UOR?
Q5- Based on on the contributions listed here, what do you keep, what do you cut, and how do you organize?
Q6- How would you classify the resulting force? Reinforced BG, Bde- ?

1 CABG consisting of;

3 CAB’s (Leo 2 and CV-90)
1 Bde Cav Sqn (CV-90)
1 Arty Reg’t. w/ 3 8 gun M109A6 batteries
1 ADA Reg’t w/ 3 Batteries of MSHORAD CV90 and one NAMSAM battery
1 Armored Engineer Squadron (Leo2 chassis)
Bde HQ


I would give the LAVs to the PRes making 3 20-80 (Reg to PRes ratio) Bde’s out of them.
Then cut to two Reg Force Bde’s - the Armored (above) in Europe and the Light in Canada.
All under 1 Cdn Div

 

[IKnowNothing]

Why?

Working within currently existing constraints to force generate on 3 stage MRP. 9 Sub units can yield either 3x3 or 2x3 +3

Why VIII CH? Other then Cold War nostalgia

Picked next to at random, I thought they were the last armoured unit moved from RegF. Name is inconsequential.

Credible Cav squadrons to work with thr Leo2 would be CV90 or Bradley (or the OMV eventual [maybe] replacement)

Context- CA as it is, not CA as Kevin wants it to be. The Cav squadrons are working with LAV Bn's, tanks are working with both, with the limitations that entails.

105mm in wheeled vehicle has already been tried and discarded.

Okay, then what do you pick?

Hybrid because one needs to consider what Cav/Armored Recce even means theses days.
Why 16 LRSS?

Because that's the multiple use the ones we have spread across 6-7 squadrons.

The fact you said both TAPV and TowII in this context worries me.

1 CABG consisting of;

3 CAB’s (Leo 2 and CV-90)
1 Bde Cav Sqn (CV-90)
1 Arty Reg’t. w/ 3 8 gun M109A6 batteries
1 ADA Reg’t w/ 3 Batteries of MSHORAD CV90 and one NAMSAM battery
1 Armored Engineer Squadron (Leo2 chassis)
Bde HQ


I would give the LAVs to the PRes making 3 20-80 (Reg to PRes ratio) Bde’s out of them.
Then cut to two Reg Force Bde’s - the Armored (above) in Europe and the Light in Canada.
All under 1 Cdn Div

None of this answers any of the questions, it's a greenfield napkin army, and stands as much chance of happening as my hedonistic protestant ass being elected pope. The reality is that Canada will be incrementally upping our contribution and trying to make banana bread out of squash to show a MN Bde.

Edit- if it makes you feel better- expand the PAXM award to cover the AT Platoon, and consider this an interim step with the LAV's to be substituted for a tracked vehicle, competition beginning today, 1st delivery 2027.

 

[KevinB]

Working within currently existing constraints to force generate on 3 stage MRP. 9 Sub units can yield either 3x3 or 2x3 +3

Picked next to at random, I thought they were the last armoured unit moved from RegF. Name is inconsequential.

Fair point. Honestly one of the reasons I like the CAB ideas is everyone can be part of a numbered unit and the Regimental Mafias can suck it.

Context- CA as it is, not CA as Kevin wants it to be. The Cav squadrons are working with LAV Bn's, tanks are working with both, with the limitations that entails.

Ack

Okay, then what do you pick?

Because that's the multiple use the ones we have spread across 6-7 squadrons.

The CA needs to reimagine what CAV is.
I’d argue it’s neither Armor or Infantry— more like Mounted Infantry- but either way the days of scouting in a LAV are over.

None of this answers any of the questions, it's a greenfield napkin army, and stands as much chance of happening as my hedonistic protestant ass being elected pope. The reality is that Canada will be incrementally upping our contribution and trying to make banana bread out of squash to show a MN Bde.

Edit- if it makes you feel better- expand the PAXM award to cover the AT Platoon, and consider this an interim step with the LAV's to be substituted for a tracked vehicle, competition beginning today, 1st delivery 2027.

Frankly I’d put all but some training Leo’s over in Latvia and UOR a Bde’s worth of CV-90
But regardless of my wishes, I think a 4 year rotation of Bde units (staggered) to Latvia with LAV etc is the best route forward to a NATO forward presence / at shouldn’t be too taxing for a G-7 Nation and NATO founding member.

 

[markppcli]

LdSH is becoming the only tank regiment, we’ll have 1 tank and two … Cavalry? Regiments what ever that means

 

[FJAG]

Fair point. Honestly one of the reasons I like the CAB ideas is everyone can be part of a numbered unit and the Regimental Mafias can suck it.

In my napkin force the RCR, PPCLI and R22eR are being reduced to one 100/0 light battalion each and put in the light brigade. Everyone else becomes 30/70 or 70/30 and goes by their Militia regiment's designation. No Mafias.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The CA needs to reimagine what CAV is.

That was kind of the point of the question set.
Whether it's organized as three regiments of 2 or two regiments of 3 there's 6 squadrons worth of RCAC with 66(?) LRSS and a bunch of top heavy undergunned, under mobile lemons, and no role. While it wouldn't be perfect ~70 more (of the right) LAV's and a plan would (should?)(could?) change that.

 

[dapaterson]

Canada's army lacks sufficient equipment to field a single brigade. Plans for the future never seem to survive a change of commander. It has divested critical supports and enablers.

But it has nine notional Reg F infantry battalions from three regiments and three notional Reg F armoured regiments, because preserving those regimental identities and balance of terror between them is more important than the defence of the nation

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Canada's army lacks sufficient equipment to field a single brigade. Plans for the future never seem to survive a change of commander. It has divested critical supports and enablers.

But it has nine notional Reg F infantry battalions from three regiments and three notional Reg F armoured regiments, because preserving those regimental identities and balance of terror between them is more important than the defence of the nation

Our CS and CSS enablers are running at about 50% in terms of pers and equipment.

Those pointy enders are in for a bad time when shit breaks, their out of beans and bullets, and they have no way to tell anyone about it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Canada's army lacks sufficient equipment to field a single brigade. Plans for the future never seem to survive a change of commander. It has divested critical supports and enablers.

But it has nine notional Reg F infantry battalions from three regiments and three notional Reg F armoured regiments, because preserving those regimental identities and balance of terror between them is more important than the defence of the nation

You forgot to mention almost 20,000 other people

Canadian Army Reserve - Canada.ca

Join the Army Reserve. A complete listing of Canadian Army Reserve (part-time) units and formations across Canada

www.canada.ca

 

[OldSolduer]

balance of terror between them is more important than the defence of the nation

this is what pisses me off the most. The regiments could operate properly if a few high ranking people were fired - for the encouragement of the others - and I am not just talking about officers.
A shift in culture must happen.

 

[markppcli]

Canada's army lacks sufficient equipment to field a single brigade. Plans for the future never seem to survive a change of commander. It has divested critical supports and enablers.

But it has nine notional Reg F infantry battalions from three regiments and three notional Reg F armoured regiments, because preserving those regimental identities and balance of terror between them is more important than the defence of the nation

Well that’s rediculous hyperbole. In what way are the Bns lacking in sufficient equipment ? I’ll give you ATGMs, but that’s being addressed. The armoured regiments, we can probably field two, same with the artillery.

If your talking about manning, then fine yes I agree, but if your saying lacking equipment then that’s just silly.

 

[dapaterson]

Well that’s rediculous hyperbole. In what way are the Bns lacking in sufficient equipment ? I’ll give you ATGMs, but that’s being addressed. The armoured regiments, we can probably field two, same with the artillery.

If your talking about manning, then fine yes I agree, but if your saying lacking equipment then that’s just silly.

Look at signals and CSS. Try to outfit three inf Bns and one Armd Regt. There is not the equipment to do so.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Look at signals and CSS. Try to outfit three inf Bns and one Armd Regt. There is not the equipment to do so.

Equipment is one aspect, personnel and expertise is another.

Add in the lack of strategic vision higher up the food chain and you get essentially a Canadian version of the BTGs that failed so spectacularly in Ukraine.

Failure to properly support, equip, and employ your combat enablers means you're essentially hoping your combat action is no more than 48hrs and that nothing breaks. That's insanity and no one seems to care, outside of the "POG" groups in the 1,4,6, and 8 shops.

We usually get the plan after it's drafted and then become a limiting factor when we can't support due to all the reasons listed above.

 

[markppcli]

Look at signals and CSS. Try to outfit three inf Bns and one Armd Regt. There is not the equipment to do so.

Which part of sigs is deficient ? We have the ability to establish Bde CPs, we can run all our CSS. I’ve been in Bns and Regiments in a Bde, I’ve been in Bde exercises. It all runs. Where’s the last time you did the same ? Again it’s hyperbole and it doesn’t help the conversation.

 

[markppcli]

Equipment is one aspect, personnel and expertise is another.

Add in the lack of strategic vision higher up the food chain and you get essentially a Canadian version of the BTGs that failed so spectacularly in Ukraine.

Failure to properly support, equip, and employ your combat enablers means you're essentially hoping your combat action is no more than 48hrs and that nothing breaks. That's insanity and no one seems to care, outside of the "POG" groups in the 1,4,6, and 8 shops.

We usually get the plan after it's drafted and then become a limiting factor when we can't support due to all the reasons listed above.

I agree on both counts. I don’t think we’re optimized in the signals world at this time. But to said we lack equipment to field a Bde ? Nah I think that misses the mark.