Interesting Article about Army Strength

[Jebus]

http://startingstrength.com/articles/army_weak_long.pdf

Is a 111 pound soldier really an effective member of an infantry squad? Can that soldier carry the average soldier when wounded on the battlefield?...My strong-but-fat Soldiers were great contributors in combat, and often they were the best performers both mounted and dismounted. They were more durable and more versatile. Our problems were with the skinny-fats and the sparrows; they couldn’t keep up on dismounted patrols under load, couldn’t kick in a door, couldn’t evacuate anybody over 140 lbs, and couldn’t intimidate an insurgent.

 

[Task]

That is an interesting point.

I was on an EX a while back and a friend of mine was an "unconscious wounded man" (he played dead weight very realistically). He weighed 240lbs + FFO.

The situation we were in, I was to take him to the nearest cover (100M away) while others provided fire support. I am by no means weak, I am a solid 200lbs myself, but there was NO way I could fireman carry him (maybe the fireman carry isn't a great test after all )... And when I dragged him I made it.... Maybe 25 Meters before I was exhausted.

I can not imagine someone at >130lbs trying to carry him. That being said the argument could raise the bar until we can all carry the biggest guy in our unit. I would like to see USA empirical evidence after Iraq and Afg to see if weight was really an issue.

 

[Greymatters]

A good write up but we scrapped the BMI index in Canada years ago.  Not for all the right reasons, but it worked to most soldiers' benefit regardless.  Unless its been reinstated in the last few years and Ive not heard about it...

Ref actual personal weight, its up to each trade to state the requirements, and up to the military as a whole to state the minimum requirements.  If a person can haul the minimum weight as per CF requirements, there's nothing to complain about.  Not everyone in the military can be 6'4" and 250 pounds of testosterone, and not everyone needs to be or should be.

 

 

[Jebus]

It's an American article, in case anyone was wondering.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

Is a 111 pound soldier really an effective member of an infantry squad?

There are 111 lb soldiers?

 

[Nostix]

There are 111 lb soldiers?

Actually, this raises a question.

Is there any chance that the CF keeps records of statistics like this (And any chance they would release it to the public)? Data on non-identifiable vital statistics would actually be very interesting to see. How big IS the average soldier? What are the extremes? Do the members of the RCR really have larger heads than normal?  ;D

As someone who loved statistics and modelling, seeing a couple histograms of this kind of information would be really cool.

 

[Task]

Actually, this raises a question.

Is there any chance that the CF keeps records of statistics like this (And any chance they would release it to the public)? Data on non-identifiable vital statistics would actually be very interesting to see. How big IS the average soldier? What are the extremes? Do the members of the RCR really have larger heads than normal?  ;D

As someone who loved statistics and modelling, seeing a couple histograms of this kind of information would be really cool.

I am certain there is. Just in light of clothe the soldier. The manufacture of clothing to ensure x% of the military population is clothed with a Y% having to be custom made. I remember prior to CadPat teams had gone to Pet (likely other bases too) and measured groups of people from each unit.

Another place where the info could be kept would be the PSP. The department interested in developing the CF express test. Development of the shuttle run (results) were a  cross-section of the CF at the time of implementation.

What would be interesting to see is if they went back to development phase would the test base be different today?

 

[desert_rat]

Ever notice the average size of a battledress blouse, naval square rig, work dress or flight jacket from World War 2?...not exactly bodybuilder proportions, but somehow we managed to win 

 

[FDO]

No one has looked at the other side of the coin. As one of the over 6ft and 200lb guys, I know I'd rather carry a 111lb solider than one my size. So lets get more "Soldier Light" on the field make it easier on  lot of us!!  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

I remember prior to CadPat teams had gone to Pet (likely other bases too) and measured groups of people from each unit.

Obviously, a complete waste of time as (still) nothing fits properly.  And I was one of the people measured.  :

 

[Task]

Obviously, a complete waste of time as (still) nothing fits properly.  And I was one of the people measured.  :

Lol, I was not one of the ones measured but when they changed the pant sizes I had a set that fit... Though shirts are still an issue for me, with my ape arms I can walk and scratch the bottom of my feet 

 

[dapaterson]

Ever notice the average size of a battledress blouse, naval square rig, work dress or flight jacket from World War 2?...not exactly bodybuilder proportions, but somehow we managed to win 

Despite popular belief, it's not so much that we won as that the other side lost.

 

[Danneskjold]

The solution?

http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn08_exoskeleton/
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/hulc/

They might not make your uniform fit any better, but it sure would be sweet to have a mechanical weightlifter strapped to your back.

 

[ArmyRick]

I play around a bit with iron. I am not the strongest but I am not the weakest guy either.

1. The 111 lbs soldier are very far and few, this is the exception, not the rule
2. From spending 2+ years dealing with new infantry recruits, I would say our average modern Canadian male joining is between 165-185 LBS (eye balling it to be honest)

When it comes to cas evac, its not just strength, its also a skill and needs to be practiced (There are also some cool tricks for picking up a dead weight off the ground by yourself that I showed my guys and are not in any books). AT the end of runs and ruck marches, through in some casualty evacuations. Not the typical one guy stands, the other picks him up in a fire mans carry. Do it from a dead heap on the ground.

Thats my take. Good luck and cheers

Another tip, add heavy dead lifts into your routine, every soldier should be doing these IMO!!!

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

ArmyRick:i totaly disagree with your guestimate of the avg sizes/weights, considering I work in clothing, I KNOW/SEE the sizes of most of these cats, to be honest, infantry and armoured are on avg the smallest. I'm talking they avg 130-150 tops, the bigger and/or jacked guys tend to be in tech trades.  This isn't to say there aren't any BIG guys elsewhere.

 

[bdave]

There are also some cool tricks for picking up a dead weight off the ground by yourself that I showed my guys and are not in any books.

Example?

 

[ArmyRick]

Sorry, I would have to show you in person. Its a bit of a hybrid BJJ/wrestling technique tweaked to pick someone up off the ground.

Infantry guys weighing 130 LBS? 150 LBS? Maybe the smaller guys. Yeah sure, walk around any infantry battalion these day dude. Seriously. I am an Infantryman and I know my own kind.

 

[Pearlina]

Anyone have any suggestions for a 100lbs soldier to help make things easier?  I used to be able to ruck marches without too much difficulty but it seems that I have started running into severe hip pain that is currently being investigated by the Physio department (starting a directed Pt program in the new year under RAFS to assist with this), just want some tips on what I can do to improve my strength so I can successfully complete the BFT, the casualty drag (currently cannot complete it with someone no smaller then 150lbs as the regs state) and would love to do the trench dig which I have also never completed.  Also what are people thoughts on tiny soldiers.

 

[ArmyRick]

Dude, seriously get through physio first and you should be going for medical re-eval to see how the progress is going. I tore my right meniscus 3 tears ago and the physio did not cure it, but it sure did help

 

[Ascendant]

Based on the recent discussion on P90X and that in general about Crossfit, I found this article very interesting, especially coming from the source it comes from. P90X and Crossfit, along with similar training protocols are addressed specifically.

The following is an abstract, if you will. You can follow the link to download the PDF, which is about 3-4 pages, I think.

“The recent surge in the quest for a “well-rounded” and/or “functional” training program (and
visible abs) has become the greatest inhibitor to effective training programming. The current trend
in “fitness” training involves a complex array of what most perceive as balance of fitness parameters:
strength, flexibility, skill specific, and high or low intensity endurance training. Becoming proficient
in many skills or modalities is an attractive proposition and has become the fashionable gold standard
for flashy, trendy workouts. Often, these techniques are applied haphazardly or in a method that
emphasizes variety over consistency and progress. Terms like “muscle confusion” and “broad time and
modal domains” are common and many will tell you that these are sound exercise principles. In fact,
they are useless techniques that are the opposite of progress and are often gimmicks promoted by greedy
entrepreneurs.”

Links for the full article and a discussion thread on the article, with input from Mark Rippetoe, can be found here: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/adaptation_period_persistence_and_prioritization