Iran Super Thread- Merged

[Xiang]

I wouldn't so much call it narrow minded....... more like a dictionary definition. Therefore it is understood by the majority to be just that!

One explanation hardly constitutes a full "dictionary definition", but rather a simple explanation, leaving out the complexities of it.  Zionism itself isn't even practiced by all Jews.

 

[dale622]

It may not be practiced by all Jewish people. That I can agree with.
But Zionism in itself is a majority Jewish practice.

 

[Xiang]

What are your views on these Jewish people?

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

 

[dale622]

It's just another group of Jewish people with different views. This does nothing to change an opinion on Zionism.

Zionism is the belief that Jews should have their own nation; Jewish nationalism. Zionism gained much support among Jews and others in the early twentieth century, and the hoped-for nation was established in the late 1940s in Palestine, as the state of Israel. Zionism is opposed by most Arabs.

That's all there really is to Zionism. Sure there may be slightly different opinions and form different groups of "Zionists". The ultimate goal in the end is still the same.

I'm not saying the entire Jewish community are Zionists......

 

[Shec]

You have a very simplistic view on Zionism.

And just what is your more expansive view?  I did not deny the support rendered by Christian Zionists and other sympathizers.  Nor did I deny the existance of dissenting views within Judiasm.  I merely gave a succinct and definitive description of what it is, which Dale substantiates.

Posit your thesis.  I invite you to prove how our view is "simplistic" and why.

 

[Xiang]

Interesting discussion fellas.  I like a good debate.

Unfortunately I have to hit the sac.  Gotta head out for NIAC tomorrow and Sunday.  I'll resume this on Monday, including some hard hitting points that are sure to win the "tin foil hat" awards.

Until then, have a great weekend, and keep your heads down.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Could it not be sufficient to say that in order to wipe out Zionism, you would have to destroy Israel? Or vice versa? This back and forth is pointless.  Iran wants to see Israel destroyed.  I think they've made that pretty plain.  If Iran is running it's collective mouth and spouting rhetoric about destroying Zionists, if the whole planet thinks that is what they mean then it becomes its own reality.  They aren't idiots and I'm sure they get back reaction feedback from their speeches.  If the comment was made in error and they were worried about how it was being taken, they could have made a retraction.  They meant what they said.  There is no massive academic pursuit or debate here.  It's common sense. 

 

[dale622]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo&feature=related

You can't make a statement like that in front of a mass audience like that and not mean what you say. This man denies the fact the millions were killed in concentration camps. He declares the Israel as an invasion. On top of it all a nuclear program weaponized or not, under such secret conditions is quite the suspicious behavior.

What is he trying to hide and what is he trying to prove?

I can understand why they have built up their air defence and other key military defence initiatives..... If the states was making practice bombing runs to hit key points in the oilsands. Would we not build up our AD capability to defend it as well?

All in all I see this as another case of people using religion as an excuse to take a swing at the guy next door. Going to war for the wrong reason should be viewed as a war crime as soon as the first casualty is named as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not pleading innocence..... there was this thing back in the day.... called the crusades..... can't really say that catholicism is all good in it's own right. If all the books promote peace, then why are we still at war?

Jihad is the biggest oxymoron to kick off the 21st century.

 

[Shec]

Could it not be sufficient to say that in order to wipe out Zionism, you would have to destroy Israel? Or vice versa? This back and forth is pointless.  Iran wants to see Israel destroyed.  I think they've made that pretty plain.  If Iran is running it's collective mouth and spouting rhetoric about destroying Zionists, if the whole planet thinks that is what they mean then it becomes its own reality.  They aren't idiots and I'm sure they get back reaction feedback from their speeches.  If the comment was made in error and they were worried about how it was being taken, they could have made a retraction.  They meant what they said.  There is no massive academic pursuit or debate here.  It's common sense.

I think it goes just a little deeper than that Zip.  Since, as Xiang does point out, it is ideology and it does have a significant base of support outside of Israel,  by extension the ideology would have to be destroyed in addition to it's physical manifestation.  And destroying an ideology entails genocide against its adherents, in this case a Holocaust II.  I do not mean to diminish the other post-Holocaust genocides of other peoples, I am using the word "Holocaust" to refer specifically to the 1933-1945 period.  Therefore,  we are talking about the destruction of Jews and very likely their non-Jewish sympathizers.  Even those non-Zionist Jews who for whatever reason be it religious convictions, social conscience, or just plain gutlessness, would be at risk, oh they might live a little longer but in the end they would probably face destruction too because that is the nature of intolerance.

You are  bang-on when you  state that what has been said should be taken at face value and when you imply that  common sense should always prevail. 

 

[CougarKing]

An update: She has been released. Good.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/05/11/...list/index.html

Journalist's release prompts praise from Washington
Story Highlights
President applauds Saberi's release but says she was wrongly accused

U.S. journalist Roxana Saberi released from jail, attorney says

Family plans to return to United States as soon as they can

Saberi was convicted on espionage charges, sentenced to eight years in prison

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- An imprisoned Iranian-American journalist accused of spying for the United States was freed Monday, ending a four-month ordeal that became a focal point of tension between Washington and Tehran.

"We are very happy," Roxana Saberi's father said as he waited for his daughter outside Evin prison.

Noting that at one point during her incarceration his daughter underwent a hunger strike and had to be hospitalized, Reza Saberi added, "She was very desperate to get out. ... She was quite relieved to know that the whole world is supporting her."

In Washington, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said President Obama was "relieved" at the news of the release.

"We know that this has been a trying time for her family and friends, and he looks forward to welcoming her home to the United States," Gibbs said at a daily news briefing. "We want to continue to stress that she was wrongly accused, but we welcome this humanitarian gesture."

Roxana Saberi, 32, was convicted last month on espionage charges in a one-day trial closed to the public. She was sentenced to eight years in prison. She denies the charges.

Monday's reversal came a day after Iran's court of appeals heard her case.

The court agreed with Saberi's lawyers that because Iran is not at war with the United States, Saberi cannot be punished for cooperating with agents of a nation at war with Iran, according to Saberi's spokesman, Abdolsamad Khorramshahi.

Her sentence was changed to a two-year jail term suspended for five years, Iran's state-run news agency IRNA reported.

State-run Press TV, citing "officials close to the case," reported that the suspended sentence "will be automatically abolished if Saberi shows no unlawful conduct in the next five years."

"Obviously, we continue to take issue with the charges against her and the verdicts rendered," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said. "But we are very heartened that she has been released and wish her and her family all of the very best we can send their way."

Reza Saberi said the family will return to their home in the United States "as soon as we can make arrangements for the trip."

Through her ordeal, Roxana Saberi, who has lived in Iran since 2003 and reported for several news organizations, became a symbol of the fight for journalists' freedoms worldwide.

"We are thrilled," said Joel Simon, executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists. "But this is also a moment to reflect on the difficult conditions that Iranian journalists endure every day. Several Iranian journalists remain jailed today. We urge they be given the same opportunity for judicial review that was afforded to Roxana Saberi."

Dave Aeikens, president of the Society of Professional Journalists, said, "Iran has a long way to go in guaranteeing freedom of the press, but this is one small indication that there is hope for the future."

The fight for Saberi's freedom took an unusual twist last month, when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent a letter to Tehran's prosecutor calling for justice in her case and the case of Hossein Derakhshan, an Iranian-Canadian blogger imprisoned in the country since November.

Reporters Without Borders, a group that fights for journalists' rights worldwide, says Derakhshan was sentenced to four years in prison for disseminating the views of one ayatollah and for "publicity against the government."

Saberi was detained in January after initially being accused of buying a bottle of wine and working as a journalist without proper accreditation, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.

She was soon charged with espionage.

"Without press credentials and under the name of being a reporter, she was carrying out espionage activities," Hassan Haddad, a deputy public prosecutor, recently told the Iranian Student's News Agency.

Authorities said Saberi confessed. Her father has said he thinks she was coerced into making damaging statements.

The whole experience has been "very depressing" for her, and she has gone through a great deal of frustration, Saberi's father said Monday. "It will take some time before she can overcome it."

He added, "It's not the [Iranian] people; they are very friendly. We don't understand why it happened."

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Keep in mind that what we see from the outside is the tip of the iceberg of what goes on within the regime. I speak to a lot of Iranians and the Iran-Iraq war has a huge effect on their thinking, they lost 500,000 people plus maybe a million wounded in a war with little to show for it, there is little desire to go to war at the street level and I think the government knows this. The economy is staggering and this will effect the ruling elite ability to buy off supporters, only about 51% of the population is Persian and there are major internal issues boiling away. The Republican Guard is slowly taking over all aspects of the economy, which will dilute their desire to be involved in a major war, which is not likely to end well for the Iranians. It’s pretty clear that Iran wants nukes more as a shield against invasion and a power card to force their views onto the region. Baiting Israel while you have a nice buffer state between you is ok for a conventional armed country, it will have implications that can spin out of control, once the nuke threat comes into play It’s also not in the interests of Iran to have a Taliban ruled Afghanistan, but also not in their interests to have a very pro-western government there as well. I fully expect a continuation of the rhetoric along with varying support for Hezbollah and Hamas.
Even more so if Iran becomes a nuke state, war by proxy seems to be the norm for nuke armed countries.

 

[CougarKing]

And here we go again with Ahmadinejad's usual saber-rattling.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_missile_test

TEHRAN, Iran – President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran test-fired a new advanced missile Wednesday with a range of about 1,200 miles, far enough to strike Israel, southeastern Europe and U.S. bases in the Middle East.

The announcement will not reassure the U.S. government, coming just two days after President Barack Obama declared a readiness to seek deeper international sanctions against Iran if it shunned U.S. attempts to open negotiations on its nuclear program. Obama said he expected a positive response to his outreach for opening a dialogue with Iran by the end of the year.

"Defense Minister (Mostafa Mohammad Najjar) has informed me that the Sajjil-2 missile, which has very advanced technology, was launched from Semnan and it landed precisely on the target," state radio quoted Ahmadinejad as saying. He spoke during a visit to the city of Semnan, 125 miles east of the capital Tehran, where Iran's space program is centered.

Ahmadinejad is running for re-election in a June 12 vote and has been criticized by his opponents and others for antagonizing the U.S. and mismanaging the country's faltering economy.

Most Western analysts believe Iran does not yet have the technology to produce nuclear weapons, including warheads for long-range missiles. A group of U.S. and Russian scientists said in a report issued Tuesday that Iran could produce a simple nuclear device in one to three years and a nuclear warhead in another five years after that.

The study published by the nonpartisan EastWest Institute also said Iran is making advances in rocket technology and could develop a ballistic missile capable of firing a 2,200-pound nuclear warhead up to 1,200 miles "in perhaps six to eight years."

Iran says its missile program is merely for defense and its space program is for scientific and surveillance purposes. It maintains that its nuclear program is for civilian energy uses only.

The solid-fuel Sajjil-2 surface-to-surface missile is a new version of the Sajjil missile, which Iran said it had successfully tested late last year with a similar range.

Iran's nuclear and missile programs have alarmed Israel, and the country's new prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, pressed Obama to step up pressure on Tehran when the two met in Washington on Monday. Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for Israel's elimination, and the Jewish state has not ruled out a military strike to deal with the Iranian nuclear threat.

 

[CougarKing]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.278ae37b736a0478b7223156a3bcf18a.401&show_article=1

Just over half of Israelis back an immediate attack on the nuclear facilities of arch-foe Iran but the rest want to wait and see the results of US diplomacy, according to a poll released on Sunday.
Fifty-one percent support an immediate Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear sites, while 49 percent believe the Jewish state should await the outcome of efforts by the US administration to engage with the Islamic republic, said the survey published by Tel Aviv University.

But 74 percent of those questioned said they believe that new US President Barack Obama's efforts will not stop the Islamic republic from acquiring atomic weapons.

Israel, widely considered to be the Middle East's sole if undeclared nuclear armed state, considers Iran its arch-foe after repeated statements by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for the Jewish state to be "wiped off the map."

Israel and Washington accuse Iran of trying to develop atomic weapons under the guise of a civilian nuclear programme, a charge Tehran has repeatedly denied.

Opinion is split among left- and right-wingers about whether to attack Iran's nuclear sites, with 63 percent of those leaning to the right favouring a strike, compared with 38 percent of those leaning to the left, the poll said.

It was carried out by Tel Aviv University's Centre for Iranian Studies among 509 Israeli adults and had a 4.5-percent margin of error.

  51-49, with a +/- 4.5% margin of error, is not much to hang a policy-making "hat" on.

Second, the answer to the question "then what?" has not be articulated. Once a war is started with Iran, how will it be conducted and what is the exit strategy? Is Israel prepared for the fall out in & around it's own country?

Also, is the US prepared for the implications of an attack on Iran?

 

[jacksparrow]

IRAN: SIX WARSHIPS DISPATCHED TO THE GULF OF ADEN

AGI) - Teheran, 25 May - Iran has dispatched six warships to the Gulf of Aden. The news was released by press agency ISNA, reporting a declaration by Admiral Habibollah Sayyari. The ships' presence, the Admiral said, is a signal to anyone who would want to militarily face the Ayatollah regime. On May 14, the Admiral had announced the dispatch of two warships to the Gulf of Aden to protect Iranian oil tankers from pirate attacks.

http://www.agi.it/world/news/2009052...e_gulf_of_aden

 

[CougarKing]

Not too surprising, I suppose?

Venezuela and Bolivia supplying Iran with uranium for its nuclear program

JERUSALEM - Venezuela and Bolivia are supplying Iran with uranium for its nuclear program, according to a secret Israeli government report obtained Monday by The Associated Press.

The two South American countries are known to have close ties with Iran, but this is the first allegation that they are involved in the development of Iran's nuclear program, considered a strategic threat by Israel.

"There are reports that Venezuela supplies Iran with uranium for its nuclear program," the Foreign Ministry document states, referring to previous Israeli intelligence conclusions. It added, "Bolivia also supplies uranium to Iran."

The report concludes that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is trying to undermine the United States by supporting Iran.

Venezuela and Bolivia are close allies, and both regimes have a history of opposing U.S. foreign policy and Israeli actions. Venezuela expelled the Israeli ambassador during Israel's offensive in Gaza this year, and Israel retaliated by expelling the Venezuelan envoy. Bolivia cut ties with Israel over the offensive.

There was no immediate comment from officials in Venezuela or Bolivia on the report's allegations.

The three-page document about Iranian activities in Latin America was prepared in advance of a visit to South America by Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon, who will attend a conference of the Organization of American States in Honduras next week. Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is also scheduled to visit the region.

Israel considers Iran a serious threat because of its nuclear program, development of long-range missiles and frequent references by its president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to Israel's destruction. Israel dismisses Iran's insistence that its nuclear program is peaceful, charging that the Iranians are building nuclear weapons.

Iran says its nuclear work is aimed only at producing energy. Its enrichment of uranium has increased concerns about its program because that technology can be used both to produce fuel for power plants and to build bombs.

Israel has been pressing for world action to stop the Iranian program. While saying it prefers diplomatic action, Israel has not taken its military option off the table. Experts believe Israel is capable of destroying some of Iran's nuclear facilities in airstrikes.

Iran, under Ahmadinejad, has strengthened its ties with both Venezuela and Bolivia, where it opened an embassy last year. Its alliance with the left-led nations is based largely on their shared antagonism to the United States but is also a way for Iran to lessen its international isolation.

The Israeli government report did not say where the uranium that it alleged the two countries were supplying originated from.

Bolivia has uranium deposits. Venezuela is not currently mining its own estimated 50,000 tons of untapped uranium reserves, according to an analysis published in December by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. The Carnegie report said, however, that recent collaboration with Iran in strategic minerals has generated speculation that Venezuela could mine uranium for Iran.

The Israeli government report also charges that the Iran-backed Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon have set up cells in Latin America. It says Venezuela has issued permits that allow Iranian residents to travel freely in South America.

The report concludes, "Since Ahmadinejad's rise to power, Tehran has been promoting an aggressive policy aimed at bolstering its ties with Latin American countries with the declared goal of 'bringing America to its knees.'"

The document says Venezuela and Bolivia are violating the United Nations Security Council's economic sanctions with their aid to Iran.

As allies against the U.S., Ahmadinejad and Chavez have set up a $200 billion fund aimed at garnering the support of more South American countries for the cause of "liberation from the American imperialism," according to the report.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor refused to comment about the secret report.

 

[CougarKing]

And Israel demonstrates its belief in the adage: "You can never be too prepared", especially if war with Iran is a distinct possibility.

Israel begins its biggest civil defense drill
05/31/2009 | 07:32 PM


JERUSALEM – Israel began the biggest civil defense drill in its history on Sunday, putting soldiers, emergency crews, and civilians through rehearsals for the possibility of war at a time of rising tensions with Iran.

The five-day drill, code-named Turning Point III, will include simulated rocket and missile attacks on Israeli cities, including preparations for a nonconventional strike. Air-raid sirens are to sound across the country on Tuesday and for the first time, all Israeli civilians will be required to practice taking cover in shelters when the sirens go off.

It's the third consecutive year that Israel is holding the exercise, a direct result of its inconclusive 2006 war against Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon. During the conflict, the Iranian-backed Hezbollah fired nearly 4,000 rockets into Israel, and civil defense authorities, bomb shelters and air raid alarms were found to be unprepared.

Iran's development of long-range missiles, along with international concerns that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, have added to Israeli jitters. While the international community has been seeking a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear issue, Israel has not ruled out military action.

Israeli leaders played down any connection between those tensions and this week's exercise, and officials have been at pains to allay fears among Arab neighbors, such as Lebanon and Syria, that it could be a cover for a military strike.

Speaking at the start of the weekly Cabinet meeting on Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described the drill as "routine" and said it was not connected to any specific event or to any intelligence warning.

"We are required to defend Israel, its cities, various installations, from the possibility of attacks by missiles, rockets or other weapons," he said. "I think the fact that Israel is preparing more from exercise to exercise and is capable of better protecting its citizens decreases the chance that we'll have to use these tools."

During the exercise, police, fire and ambulance services, hospitals, military rescue units and local authorities will practice dealing with various attack scenarios, including by missiles carrying non-conventional warheads, the national emergency service said in a statement.

It said the exercise would also include emergency sessions of the Cabinet to debate simulated events.

Defense officials said the exercises were designed to implement lessons learned from Israel's 2006 war with Hezbollah. It also incorporates experience gleaned from barrages of rockets fired into southern Israel by Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai said.

"We are holding exercises to meet the threats as we have experienced them in the past few years and as we may face them in the future," Vilnai told the radio. "It's the third time we've carried out this drill and I imagine that next year at this time there will be Turning Point IV."

Similar rehearsals were conducted in 2007 and 2008, but the military said this year's exercise would be "the largest and most comprehensive yet." Last year, sirens failed to function in parts of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

A state-of-the-art national civil defense control and command center will be inaugurated in this year's exercises.

Vilnai would not comment on whether the drill was meant to send a specific message to Iran but said every display or preparedness carried an element of deterrence.

"Our enemies long ago showed they believe that the home front is our Achilles heel," he said. "We are drilling there to prove that it is not." - AP

 

[CougarKing]

And there are those who believe an Israeli air strike on Iran is unlikely to succeed:

http://news.newsmax.com/?Z6CvXcfmRCq2V3MbmqNNmEWZz3ykxJR1Z

1. Study: Israeli Attack on Iran Unlikely to Succeed

A new study casts serious doubt on Israel's ability to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities — and warns of the repercussions of an Israeli attack.

The study is detailed in a 114-page paper by two senior scholars at Washington's Center for Strategic & International Studies: Anthony Cordesman, former national security adviser to Sen. John McCain, and Abdullah Toukan, who was an adviser to the late King Hussein of Jordan.

"Their conclusion: Chances of a strong success — defined by how much of Iran's uranium enrichment program is destroyed or the number of years the attack delays Iran's acquisition of material sufficient to build a nuclear bomb — seem dubious," the Jewish publication Forward reports, "while the risks of the undertaking and its harsh military and destabilizing geopolitical consequences seem overwhelming."

A recent poll by Tel Aviv University's Center for Iranian Studies found that half of all Israelis favor an immediate Israeli attack on Iran. And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently said in a meeting with members of his Likud Party, discussing who will eliminate Iran's threat to Israel: "It is us or no one."

But the study by Cordesman and Toukan points out a number of difficulties Israel would face:


Limited aerial resources would allow Israel to target only three sites among Iran's numerous nuclear development centers.

The attacks would require pinpoint accuracy to penetrate thick reinforced concrete and impact underground facilities.

Iran's air defenses, possibly bolstered by a sophisticated Russian anti-aircraft system, could down 20 percent to 30 percent of Israel's attack aircraft.

Even a successful attack on the three sites could prove futile if Iran maintains secret facilities for uranium enrichment, as is suspected.
As for the repercussions of an Israeli attack, Iran and its Shiite allies in neighboring countries would launch retaliatory attacks against Israel, American military forces in Iraq, and Western interests in the region, the authors warn.

These attacks would include ballistic missiles — including some with chemical, biological and radiological warheads — targeting "Tel Aviv, Israeli military and civilian centers, and Israeli suspected nuclear weapons sites," the authors note, adding that Israeli's air defenses would not be able to cope with the tens of thousands of missiles. 

Forward concludes, "Such a heavy military and strategic price, weighed against the real possibility that an Israeli strike will not significantly set back Iran's nuclear abilities, make an Israeli attack unlikely."

 

[Yrys]

Iran marks Ayatollah Khomeini anniversary

The Ayatollah was a key figure
in the rise of political Islam

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader, has strongly criticised the US as Iran marks
20 years since the death of the founder of the Islamic republic. He said the US remained
"deeply hated" in the region and "beautiful and sweet" words would not change that. He told
the huge crowd at the mausoleum of his predecessor, Ayatollah Khomenei, that action was
needed not words. He also demanded calmer exchanges between presidential candidates
after a fiery televised debate on Wednesday.

Incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused his rivals of corruption, while his leading
opponent, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, said Mr Ahmadinejad's foreign policy was undermining the
dignity of the Iranian nation.

Mr Khamenei warned candidates that they should not let their differences of opinion lead
to chaos. The ayatollah's speech came just hours before US President Barack Obama was
to deliver a speech in Cairo aimed at establishing a new relationship with the Muslim world
after years of tense relations under the Bush administration.

"In the past few years, American governments, especially the government of the foolish
former president... have occupied two Islamic countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, under the
pretext of the fight against terrorism," he said. "You witness that in Afghanistan, American
warplanes bomb people and kill some 150 not once, but 10 and 100 times. They kill people
continually. So, terrorist groups, do what you are doing there," he added. "If the new
president of America wants a change of face, America should change this behaviour.
Words and talk will not result in change."

Mr Khamenei went on to urge candidates in next week's presidential election to avoid
damaging each other's reputation and to work towards a common purpose. He also
accused foreigners of trying to discredit the elections, with "foreign radio programmes
tarnishing the elections, making people pessimistic".

Under Iran's Islamic revolutionary system, designed primarily by the late Ayatollah
Khomenei, the president is elected by universal suffrage, but it is the supreme leader
who is empowered to determine all the key decisions of the state. 


From Jon Leyne, BBC Tehran correspondent:

After 20 years, the figure of Ayatollah Khomeini still dominates. His picture is on display
in every public building and the system he created lives on, much as he designed it.

Even critics of Ayatollah Khomeini would accept that his was a huge, charismatic, presence,
not that criticism of him is advisable inside Iran. He was an astute administrator and a very
able politician with a degree of ruthlessness. He has been widely demonised in the West, but
this man, so little understood outside Iran, is one of the key figures in the rise of political
Islam, a movement that is one of the most powerful forces in the world today.

 

[CougarKing]

And the Iranian election heats up:

Link

Ahmadinejad lashes out at rival just before vote
          Associated Press Writer Anna Johnson, Associated Press Writer – 7 mins ago
TEHRAN, Iran – Iran's hard-line president took a final shot at his rivals Wednesday during his last public campaign rally, accusing his main pro-reform challenger of fabricating problems about the country's economy woes to sway voters.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is locked in a neck-and-neck race against reformist Mir Hossein Mousavi. Both have launched intense political attacks against each other and have turned the presidential election into a display of Iran's deep political divides.

The outcome will have little direct impact on Iran's key policies — such as its nuclear program or possible acceptance of Washington's offer for dialogue — which are directly dictated by the ruling Islamic clerics. But Ahmadinejad has becoming a highly polarizing figure on the international stage with comments that include questioning the Holocaust and calling for Israel's demise.

A change of government could ease Iran's isolation and give Washington and others a freer hand to build ties with Tehran and engage in negotiations over Iran's nuclear ambitions. The United States and others fear Iran could eventually seek nuclear weapons, but Iranian officials say the country only seeks peaceful reactors for electricity.

Thousands of Ahmadinejad supporters flocked to western Tehran to catch a glimpse of him and hear one of his final speeches before heading to the polls on Friday. No public campaigning is allowed the day before the vote.

They cheered Ahmadinejad's name, waved Iranian flags in the air and chanted slogans like "Mousavi is a liar!"

Hundreds of women dressed in long black robes, called chadors, draped Iranian flags around their neck, and several young men painted their faces in the red, white and green colors of the flag — Ahmadinejad's campaign symbol. About a dozen men stood on a nearby rooftop as Ahmadinejad spoke, frantically waving large Iranian flags in the air.

Mousavi has made Iran's struggling economy a hallmark of his campaign, accusing Ahmadinejad of manipulating statistics that hide the extent of the nation's fiscal problems despite its vast oil and gas reserves.

Earlier this week, Ahmadinejad insisted that inflation stood at 15 percent — lower than the 25 percent widely reported by financial officials. On Tuesday, Ahmadinejad admitted that inflation was 25 percent.

But he also accused Mousavi of lying about the state of the economy.

"With the grace of God, the Iranian nation will send them to the bottom of history," he said.

Two other candidates are in the race: former Revolutionary Guard commander Mohsen Rezaei and former parliament speaker Mahdi Karroubi. In the increasingly tight race, their level of support could play a swing role — with Rezaei expected to draw conservative voters and Karroubi pulling in moderates.

Many of Ahmadinejad's supporters said they would vote for him because he fights for the common man and champions Islam — images projected in his campaign propaganda. Several of the posters handed out at the rally showed him praying, having dinner with a rural family and comforting an elderly man.

"He's very brave and a real Muslim. He says what is right and he doesn't get frightened by anyone," said supporter Mariam Nouri, 38, who had a red, white and green ribbon tied on her wrist.

Mousavi's backers have also been flocking to the streets in recent days to show their support, and a few wearing green wristbands — Mousavi's campaign color — gathered around the fray of Ahmadinejad's rally. Thousands of Mousavi supporters, many of them young people, plan to hold a street demonstration later Wednesday in Tehran, though it is unclear if the candidate will attend.

Mousavi also made a final campaign foray into Ahmadinejad's provincial strongholds.

During his speech, Ahmadinejad launched a scathing attack against his rivals and former President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. He vowed to the cut the hands off of those who he says have plundered Iran's wealth if re-elected.

"Today, their problem is not Ahmadinejad. They want to take revenge on the nation because the sin the nation committed was that it made a new choice in the previous election (by electing Ahmadinejad) ... and gave a big no to the corrupt and mischief-makers," Ahmadinejad said, drawing loud cheers from the crowd.

Ahmadinejad has been locked in a fierce power struggle with Rafsanjani for years. During a televised debate on Saturday against Mousavi, Ahmadinejad accused Rafsanjani and several current and former officials of corruption. In response, Rafsanjani sent a letter to Iran's supreme leader on Tuesday, warning him to take "serious action" against the president.

____

Associated Press Writer Ali Akbar Dareini contributed to this report.

 

[CougarKing]

(ETA: This thread has been updated/retitled. Please scroll down for the latest update)

So if supposed reformist candidate Mousavi wins, will it be a new beginning for relations between Iran and the US/the West?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090612/world/international_us_iran_election

Both sides claim victory in Iran election
39 minutes ago

By Parisa Hafezi and Zahra Hosseinian

TEHRAN (Reuters) - State media declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner of Iran's election on Friday, but challenger Mirhossein Mousavi alleged irregularities and claimed victory for himself.

The head of the state election commission said Ahmadinejad was leading Mousavi by 69 percent to 28 percent with about 19 percent of ballots counted.


The official news agency IRNA said: "Dr Ahmadinejad, by winning most votes at the 10th presidential election, has secured his victory."


Mousavi had earlier tried to pre-empt official announcements by calling a news conference at which he alleged there had been irregularities, including a shortage of ballot papers.


"I am the definite winner of this presidential election," he declared.


There was no immediate response from Mousavi to the election commission's figures.


A bitterly fought campaign has generated intense excitement inside Iran and provoked strong interest around the world, with policymakers looking for signs of a change of approach by Tehran, whose ties with the West worsened under Ahmadinejad.


A victory for Mousavi could help ease tensions with the West, which is concerned about Tehran's nuclear ambitions, and improve chances of engagement with U.S. President Barack Obama, who has talked about a new start in ties with Tehran.


Mousavi, a former prime minister, said many people had not been able to cast their ballots even after voting was extended by four hours.


Earlier, in Washington, Obama said his administration was excited about the debate taking place in Iran and he hoped it would help the two countries to engage "in new ways."


Mousavi, at his news conference, listed problems with the voting process.


"(We) are waiting for the counting of votes to officially end and explanations of these irregularities be given," Mousavi said. "We expect to celebrate with people soon."


"We hope that authorities in charge do their work in this regard with the wisdom of the supreme leader this issue would end in a good way."


Under the election rules, if no candidate wins 50 percent of the votes, a run-off will be held on June 19 between the two front-runners.

VOTING QUEUES


Long queues had formed at voting centers, both in northern, affluent areas of Tehran where Mousavi draws support and in southern, poorer neighborhoods seen as Ahmadinejad strongholds.


High turnout could indicate voting by many pro-reformers who stayed away when Ahmadinejad won four years ago on a pledge to revive the values of the 1979 Islamic revolution. Political analysts have said they expect a close race.

For Iranians it is a chance to pass judgment on his management of the Islamic Republic's oil exporting economy.

Although Ahmadinejad, 52, says his government has revived economic growth and curbed price rises, inflation and high unemployment were the main campaign issues. Official inflation is around 15 percent.

Social issues, such as strict dress codes for women, as well as Iran's ties with the outside world, also featured in the campaign but the outcome of the vote will not bring a major shift in Iran's foreign policy, which is determined by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

The United States has had no ties with Iran since shortly after the revolution but Obama said in Washington that the United States had "tried to send a clear message that we think there is the possibility of change" in relations.

Mousavi, 67, rejects Western demands that Iran halt uranium enrichment but analysts say he would bring a different approach to Iran-U.S. ties and talks on Tehran's nuclear program, which the West fears is a cover to build bombs. Iran denies this.

"People's strong, revolutionary and clear decision will bring about a bright future for the nation," Ahmadinejad, a self-styled champion of the poor with strong support in rural areas, said while voting in a working class part of Tehran.

The three-week election campaign was marked by mudslinging, with Ahmadinejad accusing his rivals of corruption. They said he was lying about the state of the economy.

Ahmadinejad's election rivals, who also include liberal cleric Mehdi Karoubi and former Revolutionary Guard leader Mohsen Rezaie, have urged the Interior Ministry and Khamenei to ensure there is no vote rigging.

Mousavi's wife Zahra Rahnavard broke new ground in the conservative Islamic state by actively campaigning for her husband, a move hailed by women's rights activists.

"I thank all the people for their green presence which created a miracle," Mousavi said, referring to the colors worn by his backers who thronged Tehran streets during the campaign, as he voted in Tehran with his wife at his side.

(Additional reporting by Hossein Jaseb and Hashem Kalantari; writing by Fredrik Dahl and Dominic Evans; editing by Mark Trevelyan)[/B]