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Iran Super Thread- Merged

Let's see if he TACOs....

Donald Trump is at risk of launching a war without purpose
A conflict with Iran without a clear objective would be recklessly dangerous

EARNING A NAME for issuing empty threats can be devastating. Ask Barack Obama. Thirteen years ago, a dictator in the Middle East defied a warning from America’s then-president not to cross a “red line” by using chemical weapons against his own people. The world held its breath, asking itself when Mr Obama would punish, or even topple, the tyrant for his war crime. Instead, Mr Obama did nothing. Syria’s vile ruler held on for over a decade. Half a million people died. For many, from that moment, the president’s credibility was shot.

Today, another murderous regime in the Middle East has been rabidly killing its own people. Iran’s rulers massacred perhaps 20,000 demonstrators in January. President Donald Trump said at the time that he would ride to the protesters’ rescue, promising that “help is on the way” and urging them to remain on the streets. Since then, Mr Trump has sworn to topple Iran’s regime. In his state-of-the-union address this week he vowed to block any resurgence of Iran’s “sinister” nuclear programme.

Has Mr Trump thereby set his own red line in the Middle East? You might suppose not. No politician today is less bound by his own bombastic outbursts and contradictions. Had the president merely shunned Iran, few would have held him to account for his noisy pledges.

Yet few people are more likely to take Mr Obama as a cautionary tale than the present occupant of the White House. More importantly, Mr Trump has done a lot more than talk. To give his words extra credibility, he has sent an armada towards Iran’s shores. The Middle East now hosts the largest concentration of American military firepower since 2003. A second aircraft-carrier, the USS Gerald R. Ford, has just sailed in. Jets, bombers and other airborne forces have assembled. Allies are on alert. By preparing the means to punish the regime of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Mr Trump is bringing this crisis to a head. This is both a moment of jeopardy and a test of his credibility.

A further reason to expect military action is that the president may be getting a taste for it. Last June he ordered bombers from Missouri to help Israel’s air force in a 12-day war to “obliterate” Iran’s nuclear programme. In January he again rolled the dice on a high-risk operation, sending special forces to Caracas to seize Venezuela’s dictator, Nicolás Maduro.

Mr Trump would prefer to win without firing a shot. But Iran’s rulers have a say, too, and they look defiant. They may judge that they can play for time at nuclear talks with America—or agree to a deal, only to stall over the details. Mr Khamenei may be prepared to put his country through an air war. Perhaps the 86-year-old is ready to be a martyr; more probably he bets he will live, even if many others die. Iran’s rulers seem united, and few, even among the Americans, seem to bank on missiles alone toppling them. The regime may be expecting to emerge stronger from any conflict simply by surviving.

If that is Iran’s calculation, Mr Trump has put himself in a bind. Launching an attack without a clear goal is exactly the sort of misstep he has long derided. Too many small and short wars turn out to be big and long. Iran has drones and ballistic missiles. Its leaders say they are readier than last year to use them against America and its allies. Imagine if a strike kills many American troops. China or Russia would be thrilled to see America bogged down, yet again, in the Middle East.

Mr Trump may yet set out a war aim that could win support from the public and Congress. But until he does, he would do better to keep talking with his fleet standing by, rather than start a war—even if holding fire looks like backing down.

 
"A war without purpose"? With a significant amount of the domestic population revolting and risking death and torture? Targeted strikes to weaken the regime grip on the people so they can finish the job.

Iran has a lot of missile, but do they have enough launchers and trusted people to launch them? With a large population opposed to the regime, it will be difficult to hide the launchers and missiles and I suspect that the Mossad has developed reporting systems for such targets with the dissidents. Once a launcher has fired, it needs to run and hide and be protected from both opposition Iranians on the ground and US/Israeli assets throughout the deployment/launch/hide and rearm evolution.
 
"A war without purpose"? With a significant amount of the domestic population revolting and risking death and torture? Targeted strikes to weaken the regime grip on the people so they can finish the job.

Iran has a lot of missile, but do they have enough launchers and trusted people to launch them? With a large population opposed to the regime, it will be difficult to hide the launchers and missiles and I suspect that the Mossad has developed reporting systems for such targets with the dissidents. Once a launcher has fired, it needs to run and hide and be protected from both opposition Iranians on the ground and US/Israeli assets throughout the deployment/launch/hide and rearm evolution.
That presupposes that regime change is actually the (or a) purpose and that it is achieved. Neither is a given.

Without putting troops on the ground, the U.S. does face real limits. Magazine depth for precision weapons and air defence missiles has to be a concern.

Personally I have zero belief that the U.S. administration has any benevolent purpose for any actions they may take. If they do go after Iran’s leadership, it’ll be for their own objectives, not for any incidental benefit to Iran’s population.

Trump is still talking in terms of nukes, and this afternoon has said he’d “love not to” attack Iran “but sometimes you have to”.

 
The regime fate is sealed, the issue is when and how does it fall. There is no walking back from the death toll on the streets, no amount of window dressing with "Islamic moderates" will bring things back to before the revolt. The only option the regime has now is to terrorize and crackdown even more.
Prior to the revolt, Islam was already fading, with only 20,000 operating mosques in the country (out of previous 70,000) the IRGC has lost much of its recruiting and support base. They are resorting to brining in proxy militia's to suppress the population. But those proxies will need to be paid and where will that money becoming from? With the crackdown, the economy will stagnate, the IRGC has a death grip on much of that and will struggle to pay their own to keep them loyal. Then there is the drought and possibility that the capital will have to evacuate due to no water. The regime has mismanaged their water resources incredibly badly and now the Taliban has reduced flows into the country as well.
 
That presupposes that regime change is actually the (or a) purpose and that it is achieved. Neither is a given.

Without putting troops on the ground, the U.S. does face real limits. Magazine depth for precision weapons and air defence missiles has to be a concern.

Personally I have zero belief that the U.S. administration has any benevolent purpose for any actions they may take. If they do go after Iran’s leadership, it’ll be for their own objectives, not for any incidental benefit to Iran’s population.

Trump is still talking in terms of nukes, and this afternoon has said he’d “love not to” attack Iran “but sometimes you have to”.


Wait…I thought their nuclear weapons program was obliterated a few months ago?

Confused James Franco GIF
 
The regime fate is sealed, the issue is when and how does it fall. There is no walking back from the death toll on the streets, no amount of window dressing with "Islamic moderates" will bring things back to before the revolt. The only option the regime has now is to terrorize and crackdown even more.
Prior to the revolt, Islam was already fading, with only 20,000 operating mosques in the country (out of previous 70,000) the IRGC has lost much of its recruiting and support base. They are resorting to brining in proxy militia's to suppress the population. But those proxies will need to be paid and where will that money becoming from? With the crackdown, the economy will stagnate, the IRGC has a death grip on much of that and will struggle to pay their own to keep them loyal. Then there is the drought and possibility that the capital will have to evacuate due to no water. The regime has mismanaged their water resources incredibly badly and now the Taliban has reduced flows into the country as well.

A gold plated gift and all will be forgotten / forgiven.
 
There you have it, straight from the - 3 letter word for donkey - mouth.

Trump says he’d ‘love not to’ attack Iran, ‘but sometimes you have to’​



President Donald Trump on Friday said that “I’d love not to use” the U.S. military to attack Iran, “but sometimes you have to.”
“I’m not happy that they’re not willing to give us what we have to have,” Trump said, referring to that condition.
 
There you have it, straight from the - 3 letter word for donkey - mouth.

Trump says he’d ‘love not to’ attack Iran, ‘but sometimes you have to’​



President Donald Trump on Friday said that “I’d love not to use” the U.S. military to attack Iran, “but sometimes you have to.”
“I’m not happy that they’re not willing to give us what we have to have,” Trump said, referring to that condition.
Didnt he say their nuclear program was completely destroyed?
 
It appears that Israel has struck first. Reports of an air attack in Tehran with Israel claiming responsibility.


 
Trump statement (translated from original in Persian on US state media):
"Our goal is to defend the American people by eliminating the imminent threat posed by the Iranian regime, a violent, ruthless, and terrifying group whose malign activities directly endanger the United States, our forces, our bases abroad, and our allies around the world.

For 47 years, the Iranian regime has chanted “Death to America” and waged an endless campaign of bloodshed and massacre against the United States, our forces, and innocent people in many countries. Their first act was to support the violent takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, during which dozens of Americans were held hostage for 444 days.

In 1983, Iranian proxies carried out a bombing of a Marine Corps base in Beirut that killed 241 American service members. In 2000, they knew about and were likely involved in the attack on the USS Cole. Many died. Iranian forces killed and named hundreds of American troops in Iraq. The regime’s proxies have also carried out countless attacks in recent years against American forces stationed in the Middle East, as well as against the American Navy, American merchant ships, and international shipping lanes. This was mass terror, and we will not tolerate it any longer.

From Lebanon to Yemen, and from Syria to Iraq, this regime has armed, trained, and financed terrorist groups that have stained the land with blood and corpses. It was the Hamas terrorist proxy that carried out the monstrous attacks on Israel on October 7, which massacred more than a thousand innocent people, including 46 Americans, and took 12 of our citizens hostage. This attack was brutal; the likes of which the world had never seen before.

Iran is the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism and recently killed tens of thousands of its own citizens in the streets as they protested. It has always been the policy of the United States, particularly under my administration, that this terrorist regime should never obtain nuclear weapons. I repeat: They should never have nuclear weapons.

That is why, in Operation Midnight Hammer last June, we destroyed the regime’s nuclear program at Fordow, Natanz, and Isfahan. After that attack, we warned them never to resume their hostile pursuit of nuclear weapons, and we tried many times to reach an agreement. We tried. Sometimes they wanted to agree, then they didn’t. They wanted to, they didn’t. They didn’t know what they were doing. They just wanted to continue the evil. But Iran, as it has done for decades, refused to accept. They rejected every opportunity to abandon their nuclear ambitions, and we can no longer tolerate this situation.

Instead, they have attempted to rebuild their nuclear program and continue to develop long-range missiles that can now threaten our very good friends and allies in Europe, target our forces abroad, and soon reach American soil. Imagine how emboldened this regime would be if it were actually armed with nuclear weapons.

For these reasons, the United States military has launched a massive and sustained operation to deter this radical and vicious dictatorship from threatening America and our essential national security interests. We will destroy their missiles and completely dismantle their missile industry. It will be completely destroyed again. We will destroy their navy. We will ensure that the regime’s terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or attack our forces, and that they can no longer use roadside bombs and improvised explosive devices to kill and injure thousands, including many Americans. And we will ensure that Iran never obtains a nuclear weapon. The message is simple: They will never have a nuclear weapon.

This regime will soon learn that no one should challenge the power and capability of the United States Armed Forces. I built and rebuilt our military during my first term, and no military in the world even comes close to its strength, capability, or sophistication.

My administration is taking every possible action to reduce the risk to American forces in the region. However, and I do not say this lightly, the Iranian regime is out to kill Americans. Brave American heroes may be lost and we may suffer casualties; these things happen in war. But we are not doing this just for today, we are doing this for the future. This is an honorable mission.

We pray for every soldier who selflessly risks his or her life to ensure that Americans and our children are never threatened by a nuclear-armed Iran. We ask God to protect all of our heroes in the field, and we are confident that with His help, the men and women of the armed forces will prevail. We have the greatest military in the world, and they will prevail.

And to the members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the armed forces, and all police forces, I say: Tonight you must lay down your weapons and enjoy complete immunity, or face certain death. Lay down your weapons; you will be treated fairly and enjoy complete immunity, or face certain death.

And in closing, to the great and proud people of Iran: Tonight is your hour of freedom. Stay in your shelters. Don't leave your homes. It's too dangerous outside. Bombs will fall everywhere, everywhere. When we're done, take over your government; it will be yours to take over. This is probably your only chance for generations. You've been asking America for help for years, but you've never gotten it. No president has ever done what I'm doing tonight. Now you have a president who will give you what you wanted; now let's see how you respond.

America stands with you with decisive strength and devastating force. Now is the time to take control of your destiny and unleash the glorious, prosperous future that is within your reach. This is the moment to act; do not let it pass.

"God bless the brave men and women of the American Armed Forces. God bless the United States of America."
Trump statement in English via x.com:
 
I didn’t expect the war to start during daylight.

From my first half hour skim, looks like major targeting of leadership- the attack came on Iran’s ‘Monday morning’. IRGC bases and missile sites have also been struck.

Iran’s counterattacks have been muted, but some number of missiles have been aimed at various bases all over the gulf.

Trump is calling on the Iranian people to seize power.

I expect we’ll see a lot more really light off tonight after dark.

A useful if very preliminary summary:

 
I didn’t expect the war to start during daylight.

From my first half hour skim, looks like major targeting of leadership- the attack came on Iran’s ‘Monday morning’. IRGC bases and missile sites have also been struck.

Iran’s counterattacks have been muted, but some number of missiles have been aimed at various bases all over the gulf.

Trump is calling on the Iranian people to seize power.

I expect we’ll see a lot more really light off tonight after dark.

A useful if very preliminary summary:

Apparently Khomeini's residence was blown up by Israel
 
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