daftandbarmy
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Rescue team refueling? ...
Iran Super Thread- Merged
- Thread starter JasonH
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I feel sick to my stomach watching this. Not overly religious but I’m praying for the best possible outcome.
As a tac hel guy, I’m humbled by what these crews are confronting right now. I echo ytz’s comments, this is tip of the spear stuff. On our advanced tactics course I was exposed to csar ops from our American brethren. Sometimes we delude ourselves and underestimate what it takes to have a capability like this, even within organizations that should be sophisticated enough to know better. Similar for casevac, medevac, fwd air evac and neo.
I’ve only had to exercise, train and imagine this level. I’ve done coin operations in sandy regions, it got sketchy many a times, but this is in a different league.
Respect to these service members, regardless of opinion of their government’s choices.
Btw- in some of those videos I can’t believe the high altitudes they’re flying at.
As a tac hel guy, I’m humbled by what these crews are confronting right now. I echo ytz’s comments, this is tip of the spear stuff. On our advanced tactics course I was exposed to csar ops from our American brethren. Sometimes we delude ourselves and underestimate what it takes to have a capability like this, even within organizations that should be sophisticated enough to know better. Similar for casevac, medevac, fwd air evac and neo.
I’ve only had to exercise, train and imagine this level. I’ve done coin operations in sandy regions, it got sketchy many a times, but this is in a different league.
Respect to these service members, regardless of opinion of their government’s choices.
Btw- in some of those videos I can’t believe the high altitudes they’re flying at.
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Sure. But what are you willing to give up instead? Here's the thing. People on this forum love to talk about big numbers. I indulge occassionally too. But CSAR is ones of those unsexy things where you need to develop a whole bunch of competencies that nobody cares about except in moments like this.
You need an incredible amount of ISR, Spectrum warfare ability, specialized refuellers and helicopters, and supporting firepower. After getting all that you have to train relentlessly for the absolute worst day everybody in every air force fears.
I'd love Canada to do this. But it can't be half assed. Any failure gives the enemy more prisoners. So how many army regiments you willing to give up to fund this effort? That's the question. Because this is one of those things, where if you commit, it has to be 100%. Not 99. 100.
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I wouldn’t infer anything from what randos on the ground don’t see and post to Twitter. I’d comfortably bet it’s all hands on deck for this one, and they’re ready to kill the absolute shit out of anything and everything.
This isn’t far from the Gulf coast in flying terms. They could easily have a lot of stuff stacked up orbiting just offshore but only minutes away in a pinch.
Gawd I hope.
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One way to keep the divide clear?
The US targets the missile infrastructure.
Israel goes after the "decapitation".
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A bit more on that D&B:
Korean Cheongung-II SAM Successfully Intercepts Iranian Missile Over UAE for First Time
South Korea’s Cheongung-II missile defense system, deployed in the UAE, intercepted an Iranian ballistic missile.According to The Korea Times, two batteries of this system are currently deployed in the United […]
militarnyi.com
I wonder if that is on our shopping list?
HavokFour
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Unrelated but interesting bit of history.
The Iranian province of Khuzestan is the bit of land Saddam tried to annex during the Iran-Iraq war. The F-15E crash site is located just outside of Behbahan, which served as a major hub for mobilizing Iranian troops and was the target of a chemical weapons attack in 1987.
The Iranian province of Khuzestan is the bit of land Saddam tried to annex during the Iran-Iraq war. The F-15E crash site is located just outside of Behbahan, which served as a major hub for mobilizing Iranian troops and was the target of a chemical weapons attack in 1987.
HavokFour
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A bit more on that D&B:
Korean Cheongung-II SAM Successfully Intercepts Iranian Missile Over UAE for First Time
South Korea’s Cheongung-II missile defense system, deployed in the UAE, intercepted an Iranian ballistic missile.According to The Korea Times, two batteries of this system are currently deployed in the United […]
I wonder if that is on our shopping list?
If it wasn't I sure hope it is now. Even if it costs the same per intercept having a "just as good" option is never a bad thing.
EDIT: A quick search says $1-1.2M per missile.
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Faster on the button than me
The Cheongung-II (M-SAM II) missile system, developed by South Korea's LIG Nex1, is recognized as a cost-effective alternative to Western systems, with individual interceptor missiles costing approximately 1.5 billion Korean won ($1.1 million to $1.26 million).
KED Global +2
Key Cost Details:
- Interceptor Missile: ~$1.1 - 1.26 million USD.
- Battery Cost: A single Cheongung-II battery is estimated to cost between 300 billion and 400 billion Korean won.
- System Comparison: The Cheongung-II is roughly one-third the price of a US-made Patriot missile system.
KED Global +3
- Saudi Arabia (2024): $3.2 billion for 10 batteries (includes support and logistics).
- Iraq (2024): ~$2.8 billion for 8 batteries.
- UAE (2022): $3.5 billion for 10 batteries.
Wikipedia +5
....
The other American option
The unit cost of an SM-6 (RIM-174 Standard ERAM) anti-ballistic missile is approximately $4 million to $4.9 million. As a premier multi-mission interceptor, it is often priced around $4.3 million (FY2021 average). Costs can vary slightly by variant (Block I/IA) and contract, but it remains a, key, high-capability asset.
Wikipedia +4
Key Cost Factors & Context
- Unit Price Range: Typically cited between $3.9 million and $4.9 million.
- FY2021 Average: Approximately $4,318,632 per unit.
- Recent Contracts: A January 2025 contract for SM-6 Block IA production amounted to $333 million.
- Comparison: While more expensive than standard surface-to-air missiles, it is significantly cheaper than the SM-3 Block IIA ($27.9 million). It is similar in cost to the Patriot PAC-3 MSE ($3.7-$4.2 million).
- Strategic Value: The SM-6 provides a "do-it-all" capability, serving as a triple-threat missile for anti-air, terminal-phase ballistic missile defense, and anti-surface warfare.
The War Zone +7
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I'm a major proponent of setting up partnerships to produce either European or South Korean (or even US) munitions here in Canada. Both for our own use (and war stocks that we desperately need) as well as for foreign sales (from a safe geographic location).Faster on the button than me
The Cheongung-II (M-SAM II) missile system, developed by South Korea's LIG Nex1, is recognized as a cost-effective alternative to Western systems, with individual interceptor missiles costing approximately 1.5 billion Korean won ($1.1 million to $1.26 million).
KED Global +2
Key Cost Details:
Recent Export Deals:
- Interceptor Missile: ~$1.1 - 1.26 million USD.
- Battery Cost: A single Cheongung-II battery is estimated to cost between 300 billion and 400 billion Korean won.
- System Comparison: The Cheongung-II is roughly one-third the price of a US-made Patriot missile system.
KED Global +3
The system is a core component of South Korea's Air and Missile Defense (KAMD) and is designed for medium-altitude, medium-range interception of aircraft and ballistic missiles.
- Saudi Arabia (2024): $3.2 billion for 10 batteries (includes support and logistics).
- Iraq (2024): ~$2.8 billion for 8 batteries.
- UAE (2022): $3.5 billion for 10 batteries.
Wikipedia +5
....
The other American option
The unit cost of an SM-6 (RIM-174 Standard ERAM) anti-ballistic missile is approximately $4 million to $4.9 million. As a premier multi-mission interceptor, it is often priced around $4.3 million (FY2021 average). Costs can vary slightly by variant (Block I/IA) and contract, but it remains a, key, high-capability asset.
Wikipedia +4
Key Cost Factors & Context
The SM-6's high cost is justified by its, unique, ability to address a broad spectrum of advanced, threats
- Unit Price Range: Typically cited between $3.9 million and $4.9 million.
- FY2021 Average: Approximately $4,318,632 per unit.
- Recent Contracts: A January 2025 contract for SM-6 Block IA production amounted to $333 million.
- Comparison: While more expensive than standard surface-to-air missiles, it is significantly cheaper than the SM-3 Block IIA ($27.9 million). It is similar in cost to the Patriot PAC-3 MSE ($3.7-$4.2 million).
- Strategic Value: The SM-6 provides a "do-it-all" capability, serving as a triple-threat missile for anti-air, terminal-phase ballistic missile defense, and anti-surface warfare.
The War Zone +7
It is however important to keep in mind that while US munitions may be more expensive than some of the alternatives they are in some cases more advanced - providing greater range, kill probability, ability to intercept more complex targets, etc.
We should definitely procure (and ideally produce) as many low cost/high-use munitions as possible to give us the magazine depth that we require but we should not ignore the high-end (and high cost) munitions that are required for the most advanced target requirements.
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I always wondered what it would look like if both sides in a conflict had Baghdad Bob PR.
The wonder is that anyone pays attention to a Baghdad Bob.
HavokFour
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Update on that possible Blackhawk shootdown from earlier.
There are also reports of an F-16CJ heading out of Iran earlier squawking 7700, and reports of an A-10 taking damage.
EDIT: A-10 Update.
I think some of that Russian assistance has been distributed to IRGC forces.
www.nytimes.com
There are also reports of an F-16CJ heading out of Iran earlier squawking 7700, and reports of an A-10 taking damage.
EDIT: A-10 Update.
I think some of that Russian assistance has been distributed to IRGC forces.
