Iran Super Thread- Merged

[YZT580]

All the people who thought these were the tough guys......

Turns out they are so sensitive to public sentiment that even in a second term presidency, they'd rather suffer humiliating defeat than plow through $5 gas.

Every adversary has America's number now.

you gotta bet that Taiwan is not happy although after watching Trump sell Ukraine down the river for the last 2 years or more and now Israel they must have been planning for the unthinkable. No one will ever trust anything that comes out of Washington. The world has become a much more dangerous place to live. Time to find a more reliable ally.

 

[Altair]

you gotta bet that Taiwan is not happy although after watching Trump sell Ukraine down the river for the last 2 years or more and now Israel they must have been planning for the unthinkable. No one will ever trust anything that comes out of Washington. The world has become a much more dangerous place to live. Time to find a more reliable ally.

Ukraine found the EU.

Canada pivoted towards Europe.

Taiwan... Japan maybe.

 

[QV]

you gotta bet that Taiwan is not happy although after watching Trump sell Ukraine down the river for the last 2 years or more and now Israel they must have been planning for the unthinkable. No one will ever trust anything that comes out of Washington. The world has become a much more dangerous place to live. Time to find a more reliable ally.

Didn't Trump provide weapons systems prior presidents would not? Didn't Trump green light strikes into Russia that prior presidents would not?

 

[Good2Golf]

Didn't Trump provide weapons systems prior presidents would not? Didn't Trump green light strikes into Russia that prior presidents would not?

Into Iran?

 

[YZT580]

Didn't Trump provide weapons systems prior presidents would not? Didn't Trump green light strikes into Russia that prior presidents would not?

didn't Trump hold back on those same weapon systems when they were desperately needed. Didn't he only allow them to strike just across the border and that was all. Didn't he also block the financial aid allocated by the Senate? for several very critical weeks and then only start providing aid again if someone else paid for it? Didn't he also treat their president like shit and insult him? Didn't he also try to cut a deal that would have Ukraine give away the Donbas and leave them defenseless or did I get that all wrong?

 

[Altair]

didn't Trump hold back on those same weapon systems when they were desperately needed. Didn't he only allow them to strike just across the border and that was all. Didn't he also block the financial aid allocated by the Senate? for several very critical weeks and then only start providing aid again if someone else paid for it? Didn't he also treat their president like shit and insult him? Didn't he also try to cut a deal that would have Ukraine give away the Donbas and leave them defenseless or did I get that all wrong?

All right, wrong thread.

When in doubt, derail.

I'm not directing this towards you.

 

[brihard]

Mark Carney calls Trump's Iran peace deal a 'game changer' in CNN interview

Prime Minister Mark Carney says he has seen the Iran peace deal brokered by the United States and calls it a gamechanger.

nationalpost.com

"PMMC says he has seen the Iran peace deal brokered by the United States and calls it a “game changer” for how leaders could approach a peace process with Ukraine and Russia.
“I have to say it exceeded my expectations,” said Carney, during an interview CNN’s The Source with Kaitlan Collins, on Tuesday. “We’re very pleased with the deal that’s been struck.”

Not satisfied with taking PMMC's word? That's ok... I get it.

I think PM Carney sees an opportunity to harmlessly stroke Trump’s ego and make him feel positive just as we’re going into our own very essential trade negotiations. Trump currently looks like an absolute fool and has to be feeling at least some of the heat. It probably serves Canada’s purposes to not be part of the commentariat chorus at the moment. Notice other world leaders are for the most part speaking in pretty positive terms too.

World leaders writ large have recognized there’s a not very subtle art to handling Trump and steering him towards things you want, and our PM and those around him are certainly live to that. It costs us basically nothing to say “Hey great job little buddy! You did it all by yourself!”, and it could pay serious dividends in his willingness to reach an easier and less demanding accord on CUSMA discussions.

 

[Altair]

I think PM Carney sees an opportunity to harmlessly stroke Trump’s ego and make him feel positive just as we’re going into our own very essential trade negotiations. Trump currently looks like an absolute fool and has to be feeling at least some of the heat. It probably serves Canada’s purposes to not be part of the commentariat chorus at the moment. Notice other world leaders are for the most part speaking in pretty positive terms too.

World leaders writ large have recognized there’s a not very subtle art to handling Trump and steering him towards things you want, and our PM and those around him are certainly live to that. It costs us basically nothing to say “Hey great job little buddy! You didn’t anll by yourself!”, and it could pay serious dividends in his willingness to reach an easier and less demanding accord on CUSMA discussions.

I pray this is it.

 

[ytz]

Not satisfied with taking PMMC's word? That's ok... I get it.

I'm not autistic enough to not comprehend the position the PM is in.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interesting how some Shiites in Lebanon feel about the deal

 

[HavokFour]

Here is the MOU, as presented by the US.

Lebanon is in fact included. Israel will not be happy.

The 14-point U.S.-Iran pact as read by U.S. official

The full draft document is published here verbatim.

www.reuters.com

1. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran and their allies in the ‌current war, by signing this MOU (Memorandum of Understanding), declare the immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and undertake from now on not to initiate any war or any military operation against each other, and to refrain from the threat or use of force against each other, and ensuring the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Lebanon. The final deal will confirm the permanent termination of the war on all fronts, including in Lebanon, and other provisions of this paragraph.

2. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran undertake to respect each other's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to refrain from interfering in each other's internal affairs.

3. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran commit to negotiating and achieving the final deal in maximum 60 days extendable with mutual consent.

4. Immediately upon the signing of this MOU, the United States of America will begin the removal of its naval blockade and any disturbances or impediments against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and will fully end the naval blockade within 30 days. During this period, ⁠the traffic of vessels will be in proportion to the numbers of pre-war traffic being restored by the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America further undertakes to remove its forces from the proximity of the Islamic Republic of Iran within 30 days after the final deal.

5. Upon the signing of this MOU, the Islamic Republic of Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge for 60 days only from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of Oman and vice versa. The traffic of commercial vessels will immediately start and, considering the need for removing the technical and military obstacles and de-mining by the Islamic Republic of Iran, will be instated within 30 days. The Islamic Republic of Iran will conduct dialog with the Sultanate of Oman to define the future administration and maritime services in the Strait of Hormuz, in discussion with other Persian Gulf littoral states in line with the applicable international law and the sovereign rights of coastal states of the Strait of Hormuz.

6. The United States of America undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The mechanism for the implementation of this plan will be finalized as part of final deal within 60 days. All required licenses, waivers, and permissions needed for the relevant financial transactions will be granted by the United States of America.

7. The United States of America undertakes to terminate all types of sanctions against the Islamic Republic of Iran, including the United Nations Security Council resolutions, i.e. IAEA Board of Governors resolutions, and all unilateral U.S. sanctions, primary and secondary, in an agreed upon schedule as part of the ‌final deal. The ⁠Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America acknowledge the critical importance of the sanctions termination issue above mentioned and express their intentions to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

8. The Islamic Republic of Iran reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran have agreed to resolve the disposition of stockpiled enriched material pursuant to a mechanism that will be mutually agreed upon, in accordance with the schedule mentioned in paragraph seven with the minimum methodology to be down blending on site under the supervision of the IAEA. The two parties also agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran's nuclear needs, based on a satisfactory framework being agreed upon in the final deal. The final deal will confirm the provisions of this paragraph. The United States of America and the ⁠Islamic Republic of Iran acknowledge the critical importance of the nuclear issues above mentioned and express their intention to immediately address these issues in the negotiations in order to achieve mutual agreement on them.

9. Pending the final deal, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree to maintain the status quo. The Islamic Republic of Iran will maintain the current status quo of its nuclear program and the United States of America will not impose any new sanctions and will not deploy additional forces in the region.

10. The United States of America undertakes that immediately upon the signing of this MOU and until the termination of sanctions, ⁠U.S. Department of Treasury will issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products, and derivatives, and all associated services, including banking transactions, insurances, transportation, etc.

11. The United States of America undertakes to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Upon the implementation of this MOU, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will mutually agree on the procedures related to the release of these funds during the negotiation. Such funds, whether retained in the original account or transferred, shall be made fully usable ⁠for payment to any ultimate beneficiary designated by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States of America undertakes to issue all necessary licenses and authorizations accordingly.

12. The United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran agree that an executive mechanism will be established to monitor the successful implementation of this MOU and the future compliance of the final deal.

13. After signing this MOU, and subject to the beginning of the implementation of paragraphs 1,4,5,10 and 11 of this MOU, and the continuing implementation of these measures, the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Iran will start negotiations regarding the final deal exclusively on the other paragraphs.

14. The final deal will be endorsed by a binding UNSC resolution.

 

[Altair]

Here is the MOU, as presented by the US.

Lebanon is in fact included. Israel will not be happy.

The 14-point U.S.-Iran pact as read by U.S. official

The full draft document is published here verbatim.

www.reuters.com

Israel bombs beirut in 3...2...

 

[Infanteer]

Every adversary has America's number now.

Xi has bent him over twice (ran him over with rare earths last year and got him to waiver on Taiwan this year), Putin got the red carpet rolled out for him in Alaska, and even Delcy Rodriguez kept a Chavist regime in place by simply saying "ok" and waiting for attention to turn elsewhere.

Adversaries have had that number since last January.

 

[Infanteer]

Here is the MOU, as presented by the US.

Lebanon is in fact included. Israel will not be happy.

The 14-point U.S.-Iran pact as read by U.S. official

The full draft document is published here verbatim.

www.reuters.com

JCPOA 2, after a war that failed to decapitate the regime and lost control of the Straits of Hormuz.

Trump's twitter account continues to pay dividends.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1213078681750573056

 

[Furniture]

Israel bombs beirut in 3...2...

Before or after Hezbollah attacks Israel? Or is the standard only applied on way?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not to mention the Houthis firing things up.

 

[Altair]

Before or after Hezbollah attacks Israel? Or is the standard only applied on way?

There is a thing called disproportionate retaliation you know.

Unless Hezbollah is firing rockets out of Beirut, then I digress.

 

[Furniture]

There is a thing called disproportionate retaliation you know.

Unless Hezbollah is firing rockets out of Beirut, then I digress.

So, breaking the ceasefire is ok, so long as your terrorist organization leadership is far enough from the front lines?

I'm just trying to find the line here between Iran failing to control it's allies, and America failing to control it's allies. It seems like in your view, it's whether or not the attacks are physically launched from Beirut, vs. my view. Which is; if one side attacks, the other is free to retaliate.

I don't draw a magical circle around a spot so the terrorist leadership can hide outside of the circle.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think PM Carney sees an opportunity to harmlessly stroke Trump’s ego and make him feel positive just as we’re going into our own very essential trade negotiations. Trump currently looks like an absolute fool and has to be feeling at least some of the heat. It probably serves Canada’s purposes to not be part of the commentariat chorus at the moment. Notice other world leaders are for the most part speaking in pretty positive terms too.

World leaders writ large have recognized there’s a not very subtle art to handling Trump and steering him towards things you want, and our PM and those around him are certainly live to that. It costs us basically nothing to say “Hey great job little buddy! You did it all by yourself!”, and it could pay serious dividends in his willingness to reach an easier and less demanding accord on CUSMA discussions.

Perhaps Carney was joking. You know, like when people tell us to not take Trump so literally all the time, and don’t shy from pulling the TDS card?

 

[Altair]

So, breaking the ceasefire is ok, so long as your terrorist organization leadership is far enough from the front lines?

I'm just trying to find the line here between Iran failing to control it's allies, and America failing to control it's allies. It seems like in your view, it's whether or not the attacks are physically launched from Beirut, vs. my view. Which is; if one side attacks, the other is free to retaliate.

I don't draw a magical circle around a spot so the terrorist leadership can hide outside of the circle.

Hey, if Hezbollah and Israel are happy to play whack a mole in perpetuity, they can knock themselves out.

But it sounds to me like Washington wants this done, and Tehran doesn't seem to care one way or another.