Iraq Unravels

[dapaterson]

Deliberately destroying cultural centres is a war crime.

 

[FJAG]

Deliberately destroying cultural centres is a war crime.

I took several Law of Armed Conflict courses and workshops with the US Army's JAG School in Virginia. They do know the LOAC including the various conventions on the protection of cultural objects and have a very rigorous targeting process including a staff check by operational legal advisors.

I have no doubts that the legal staff check on the actual targets is much more rigorous than those on Trump's tweets.

:cheers:

 

[brihard]

In fairness to Trump, he didn't clearly threaten to attack cultural targets, but rather to attack targets that, among other things, are important to the Iranian culture. With the vagueness of that sentence, that could mean a lot of different things. I was pointing out the ambiguity of the wording more than anything. While i have concerns, they're somewhat tempered by knowing what FJAG said to be true. I trust that American targeting and strike protocols would not allow the carrying out of manifestly unlawful orders. Even if that were his specific intent, it would not be the first time the US military senior leadership has had to make sure it's understood by the President what is and isn't legal, and that there are certain lines they cannot and will not cross.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hopefully the targets focus first on high value military and IRGC personal, along with some military assets. A target list that spares the general population and focuses on the regime may help create a feeling from within that the Regime is getting what it deserves.

 

[FJAG]

According to Pence, Qassem Soleimani played a role in helping the 9/11 hijackers travel to Afghanistan.

Even Fox News isn't buying that.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pences-office-media-9-11-terrorists-soleimani

:cheers:

 

[rmc_wannabe]

FJAG,

I assume under LOAC "cultural significant" but also militarily important targets can be one and the same? For example, if Iran bombed the hell out of West Point or the Pentagon, the cultural impact would be felt, however it would be fair game being a military establishment and all?

Maybe the 52 targets are not just ammo depots and barracks, but HQs, trg establishments, etc. That have significance to Iranian culture?

 

[mariomike]

CP24 reports on demonstrations at the US consulate in Toronto,
https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1868582

 

[Colin Parkinson]

According to Pence, Qassem Soleimani played a role in helping the 9/11 hijackers travel to Afghanistan.

Even Fox News isn't buying that.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pences-office-media-9-11-terrorists-soleimani

:cheers:

Apparently Iran helped AQ move people, but then took their families hostage to ensure good behaviour or favours. Iran has a history of playing every side at once.

 

[FJAG]

FJAG,

I assume under LOAC "cultural significant" but also militarily important targets can be one and the same? For example, if Iran bombed the hell out of West Point or the Pentagon, the cultural impact would be felt, however it would be fair game being a military establishment and all?

Maybe the 52 targets are not just ammo depots and barracks, but HQs, trg establishments, etc. That have significance to Iranian culture?

Sorry but I can't help you here as I have no idea what Trump really meant when he used those words. Let's face it, he doesn't always use the best words. What it is, however, is a poor choice of words because they can be interpreted just about any way that his base or his critics want.

That said, I have yet to see a "culturally significant" ammo dump. To be serious though, the law runs both ways. While an attacking force is prohibited/restrained from attacking such targets, the local/occupying forces are also prohibited from using them for a military purpose. Like the US, Iran has ratified the 1954 Hague Convention. The US filed declarations and reservations. http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13637&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html#STATE_PARTIES

:cheers:

 

[tomahawk6]

CP24 reports on demonstrations at the US consulate in Toronto,
https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1868582

I saw the samething on TV but it now seems to be clash between pro-IRGC supporters and those who are opposed.

Per the US target list I would bet that they might be IRGC bases both land and sea among them. Iraq wont be stable until the militias are disbanded.

 

[Baz]

I trust that American targeting and strike protocols would not allow the carrying out of manifestly unlawful orders.

I was a staff targetting officer (not a targeteer) at NATO SHAPE J2 ISTAR.  Both my NATO basic targeting course, which included LOAC, at O-Gau, and my collateral damage course at Molesworth were taught by Americans.  Targeteers understand LOAC and it is robustly implemented in the process.

Targets are nominated up based on Commander's intent.  I doubt the White House has circumvented that process by nominating down.

I think that is probably a poor phrasing of the intent he's provided.  I hope he has not provided an intent that is against the LOAC and is accepting the consequences, because he can do that, but he will have been briefed he is personally responsible.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, the U.S. Selective Service site has been getting swamped ...

 

[tomahawk6]

We haven't had the draft since the end of Vietnam. I actually enlisted in 1972 which was the start of the all volunteer Army. So the scare mongers are doing a disservice to our young people. We fought Desert Storm without having to draft. Under current guidelines many of these kids today wouldn't be able to get in due to being overweight so those guidelines would have to be relaxed.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

We haven't had the draft since the end of Vietnam. I actually enlisted in 1972 which was the start of the all volunteer Army. So the scare mongers are doing a disservice to our young people. We fought Desert Storm without having to draft. Under current guidelines many of these kids today wouldn't be able to get in due to being overweight so those guidelines would have to be relaxed.

 

[mariomike]

I saw the samething on TV but it now seems to be clash between pro-IRGC supporters and those who are opposed.

Saw this on the Toronto news,

Pro-Iranian terrorist demonstrators build shrine for Qasem Soleimani in Toronto
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/pro-iranian-terrorist-demonstrators-build-shrine-in-downtown-toronto/

Pro-Iranian terrorist demonstrators build shrines for Qasem Soleimani in downtown Toronto
https://themediatimes.com/pro-iranian-terrorist-demonstrators-build-shrines-for-qasem-soleimani-in-downtown-toronto/

 

[The Bread Guy]

Next up - highlights mine ...

The Iraqi parliament passed a resolution Sunday calling on the government to expel U.S. troops from the country in response to the killing of Iranian Gen. Qasem Soleimani and the leader of an Iraqi militia on its soil.

Why it matters: The legal basis for the U.S. presence in Iraq is that it comes at Iraq's invitation. This vote does not formally revoke that invitation, but is a step along that path. A U.S. exit from Iraq could ultimately be one of the most consequential results of Soleimani's killing, because it would significantly hamper the fight against ISIS and achieve a major Iranian objective.

What they're saying: Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi said Iraq "cannot accept" a "political assassination" on its soil. He called the attack a grave violation of Iraqi sovereignty.

    Mahdi also revealed that Soleimani was in Baghdad at the time of his killing to meet with him and relay Iran's response to a Saudi request for dialogue.
    Mahdi noted that he had personally worked to defuse the protests outside the U.S. embassy in Baghdad earlier in the week, going so far as to threaten to step down if the militia behind the protests did not disperse.
    President Trump thanked him for that effort, he said, at the same time he was planning an attack inside Iraq without permission.
    Mahdi, who resigned in November amid mass protests in Iraq but remains as caretaker prime minister, previously warned that President Trump's decision would "light the fuse of war."

Behind the scenes: U.S. military leaders were "stunned" that Trump gave the order to kill Soleimani, a step they viewed as the "most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq," per the NY Times.

    Trump administration officials have since said Trump had little choice because Soleimani was planning imminent attacks on U.S. and allied forces in the region, but have presented no evidence of such plans.

The resolution passed today calls not only on U.S. troops to leave Iraq, but the entire international coalition fighting Islamic State.

More of note ...

• "Iran will hit US ‘military sites' in response to assassination of Lt. Gen. Soleimani" (IRN state media)
• "A senior commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps warned that Iran has spotted 35 US targets in the region as well as Tel Aviv for possible attacks in response to the Friday assassination of IRGC Qods Force Commander Lieutenant General Qassem Soleimani ..." (IRN state media)
• "Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister for Political Affairs Abbas Araqchi says “hostile” remarks made by Donald Trump, the president of the United States, clearly amount to war crime according to international law ..." (IRN state media)
• "Iranians will chant “Death to America” as long as Washington continues its hostile policies, but the slogan is directed at President Donald Trump and U.S. leaders, not the American nation, Iran’s supreme leader said on Friday ..." (Reuters)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Saw this on the Toronto news,

Meh....people build "shrines" when a scumbag drug dealer gets taken out.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Meh....people build "shrines" when a scumbag drug dealer gets taken out.

Jésus Malverde!  What a guy!

 

[Good2Golf]

Next up
... What they're saying: Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi said Iraq "cannot accept" a "political assassination" on its soil. He called the attack a grave violation of Iraqi sovereignty.

    Mahdi also revealed that Soleimani was in Baghdad at the time of his killing to meet with him and relay Iran's response to a Saudi request for dialogue.
...

Both points quite valid and leads one to question how much consultation from US to IRQ occurred prior to the US executing the kill chain.  Let’s accept what PM Mahdi said is true for a moment and appreciate the impact of the US action on intra-Regional effort to work the Yemeni situation.

Regards
G2G

 

[FJAG]

Maclean's weighs in: Critical of Obama, backhandedly supportive of Trump and pondering whether we're ready for what comes next.

The U.S. was justified in killing Soleimani—but is it ready for what comes next?

Terry Glavin:

Americans may ponder whether they’ve kicked off World War III. But Soleimani made many in the Mideast feel like they’re already in a world war.

by Terry GlavinJan 3, 2020

It may well have been capricious in the extreme for Donald Trump’s White House to order that spectacular hit in Iraq, but lets face it: the airstrike target was the Lord of the Flies. He got nothing less than he visited upon countless others who—unlike him—had no blood on their hands.

Qassem Soleimani, the Iranian major-general who was incinerated in a precision Pentagon airstrike in Iraq on Thursday, was not just the most ruthless and blood-soaked warlord in the entire Middle East. He was Iran’s military-intelligence mastermind and the head of the Quds Force, which put him at the pinnacle of Tehran’s extraterritorial terror, espionage and military chain of command.

...

See rest here.

https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/the-u-s-was-justified-in-killing-soleimani-but-is-it-ready-for-what-comes-next/

:cheers: