- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 460
Thats a good idea having those different types of IMPs. As for diversity, one uniform, one race, human....................We all serve under the same flag, quotas, affirmative action, is useless...........Best human for the job period.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 223
- Points
- 710
You see....this is how it all starts......people, including journalists and members of this forum just don't "Pay Attention to Detail". It is something that we preach all the time in the CF. Just out of curiosity, why are you guys dredging up posts that are six years old and answering people who are long gone?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
I've been thinking about this for a while, and the question that I keep getting back to is:
Does it even matter?
What benefits does racial diversity bring to an army? I suppose that there are some residual "representing Canadians" benefits, but it's not like the police, where the force is actively engaged in the population, and having a member of a particular community may bring some operational benefits in terms of enhancing information transfer, defusing tension, and the like. An army (hopefully) doesn't get engaged within the population, so I don't think that same dynamic exists there..
Perhaps there are benefits from having members of a similar culture to the theatres where we are active (for the same reasons as the police above), but I don't think that diversity advocates are looking to vastly increase the number of south asians and haitians in particular. Indeed, that would produce a force that is not very representative of Canada as a whole... if that's the goal.
Perhaps there are some benefits in terms of ensuring that we hit our recruiting numbers, but ultimately, as long as we've got a force that's as big as mandated, then there's not a huge gain there. While not necessarily desirable, I'm not sure that CF effectiveness as an instrument of foreign policy would be all that different if it were manned entirely by capers and bleuets.
At the end, I keep getting back to the same intuition. And that's that diversity in the CF is not a big thing for the force itself, but that perhaps it is important for our society. Where i'm getting at is that there's likely not a huge benefit from having diversity in the forces. However, it is a potentially useful proxy for the level of engagement of the different portions of our cultural mosaic within the society at large. If members of a particular community are active in the CF, it's a decent indicator that that community has bought into the fundamentals of citizenship. And for that reason, it's an interesting metric.
All of that said, I still check off the "does not choose to self-identify" for all of those surveys that come around. They always seem to end up as fodder for social engineers with bright ideas...
Does it even matter?
What benefits does racial diversity bring to an army? I suppose that there are some residual "representing Canadians" benefits, but it's not like the police, where the force is actively engaged in the population, and having a member of a particular community may bring some operational benefits in terms of enhancing information transfer, defusing tension, and the like. An army (hopefully) doesn't get engaged within the population, so I don't think that same dynamic exists there..
Perhaps there are benefits from having members of a similar culture to the theatres where we are active (for the same reasons as the police above), but I don't think that diversity advocates are looking to vastly increase the number of south asians and haitians in particular. Indeed, that would produce a force that is not very representative of Canada as a whole... if that's the goal.
Perhaps there are some benefits in terms of ensuring that we hit our recruiting numbers, but ultimately, as long as we've got a force that's as big as mandated, then there's not a huge gain there. While not necessarily desirable, I'm not sure that CF effectiveness as an instrument of foreign policy would be all that different if it were manned entirely by capers and bleuets.
At the end, I keep getting back to the same intuition. And that's that diversity in the CF is not a big thing for the force itself, but that perhaps it is important for our society. Where i'm getting at is that there's likely not a huge benefit from having diversity in the forces. However, it is a potentially useful proxy for the level of engagement of the different portions of our cultural mosaic within the society at large. If members of a particular community are active in the CF, it's a decent indicator that that community has bought into the fundamentals of citizenship. And for that reason, it's an interesting metric.
All of that said, I still check off the "does not choose to self-identify" for all of those surveys that come around. They always seem to end up as fodder for social engineers with bright ideas...
As a guy who joined the Marines when he had no real exposure to US society (not much different, but there are subtleties), never known blacks, Mexicans, etc. the one thing I can say about diversity, is that it did not make any difference. We lived and fought as a unit. There were a few rednecks on all three sides, but ignorance knows no bounds. But when the bullets flew, I and everyone else didn't give two hoots about the diversity of the guy covering me, so long as he could shoot straight.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 410
There is another aspect to this diversity thing, one that I think is far more hard-nosed and pragmatic, and a lot less airy-fairy PC than people might think. That is, IIRC, that the ''European'' white male portion of the population is either almost static in terms of growth, or is actually shrinking. Other demographics are growing. For example, if I am not wrong, one of the fastest growing groups in Canada is aboriginals.
Now, if you want to preserve a volunteer army (i.e. if we assume that conscription is a non-starter in Canada in peacetime), or you want to make that volunteer army bigger, or to get the right calibre of recruits, then you better be able to tap into the biggest possible slice of the population, since to begin with IMHO very few people in a Western liberal democracy are interested in joining the military as a career. I include the USA in this generalization, along with the majority of European countries that have now coverted to professional volunteer forces. I do not believe we are alone in this problem.
To me, it only makes common sense to do everything that we can reasonably and ethically do to broaden our recruiting base as a guarantee of our future survival. Note, please, that I am not advocating dropping any standards, since I don't think this is useful in the long run, nor even really needed in the short run.
Really, who gives a crap what colour or race the soldiers in WWI and WWII were? So what? It's completely irrelevant to the very pressing issue of how we are going to sustain a volunteer professional army in Canada in a changing population base. Do alot of new Canadian parents think badly of their kids joining up? Really? Well...then they're not too different from alot of their white, Euro, Christian suburban neighbours, are they? In fact, they fit right in, don't they?
What we need to do, in my opinion, is aggresively represent the Army as a professional, combat-worthy force that is open to everybody who can meet the standards. That is about as much as we in the Army can do directly (that, and sort out any remaining racists, sexists, or other such mouth-breathers who may still be stupid enough to show their true colours...) What would be great, but perhaps beyond our reach as a military, would be to develop the idea in Canadian society that military service is a good way to build Canadians who can respect each other based on having served with people who look different but are still good soldiers. After all, who cares what race, colour or religion a person is in a firefight? All I would care about is whether or not they had paid attention during ''Holding, Aiming and Firing''.
Those few historic and well-publicized incidents that Canadians think they know all about, and that some people still think characterize the people in the Army, are now almost all well over a decade behind us. We've come a very long way, as witnessed by some of the very astute posts in response to jimiscanadian's stream of utter rubbish. The point is, we still have a long way to go. We can't stop now, or perhaps ever. We will probably never have Canadians jamming the recruiting centres in peace time, but we have to ensure a steady flow of enough good people to make things work. The last thing we want is to have a young Canadian, who might be a great soldier, turn his back on us because '' they don't want people like me''.
How to do it? Quotas and other such tripe are useless rubbish and will achieve nothing, IMHO. We have to reach out, through recruiting, through community involvement, through Regtl associations, or whatever we can think of. If we don't take the initiative, who will? I am reminded of a recent speech by the CDS at CFC, in which he described visiting an Ottawa mosque and talking with the elders, and the relationship he has developed with them. He pointed out how important this kind of thing is, and how little we generally do of it.
It may seem ''PC'' and not ''in our lane'' to do such things, but our survival as an institution is our responsibility, and that means making sure as many interested Canadians as can meet the standard are happy to join and comfortable to serve. And if that means that some people ***** in their beer down at the Legion about the 'damned immigrants wrecking this country we built', so be it. When, exactly, did we stop building Canada?
Cheers
Now, if you want to preserve a volunteer army (i.e. if we assume that conscription is a non-starter in Canada in peacetime), or you want to make that volunteer army bigger, or to get the right calibre of recruits, then you better be able to tap into the biggest possible slice of the population, since to begin with IMHO very few people in a Western liberal democracy are interested in joining the military as a career. I include the USA in this generalization, along with the majority of European countries that have now coverted to professional volunteer forces. I do not believe we are alone in this problem.
To me, it only makes common sense to do everything that we can reasonably and ethically do to broaden our recruiting base as a guarantee of our future survival. Note, please, that I am not advocating dropping any standards, since I don't think this is useful in the long run, nor even really needed in the short run.
Really, who gives a crap what colour or race the soldiers in WWI and WWII were? So what? It's completely irrelevant to the very pressing issue of how we are going to sustain a volunteer professional army in Canada in a changing population base. Do alot of new Canadian parents think badly of their kids joining up? Really? Well...then they're not too different from alot of their white, Euro, Christian suburban neighbours, are they? In fact, they fit right in, don't they?
What we need to do, in my opinion, is aggresively represent the Army as a professional, combat-worthy force that is open to everybody who can meet the standards. That is about as much as we in the Army can do directly (that, and sort out any remaining racists, sexists, or other such mouth-breathers who may still be stupid enough to show their true colours...) What would be great, but perhaps beyond our reach as a military, would be to develop the idea in Canadian society that military service is a good way to build Canadians who can respect each other based on having served with people who look different but are still good soldiers. After all, who cares what race, colour or religion a person is in a firefight? All I would care about is whether or not they had paid attention during ''Holding, Aiming and Firing''.
Those few historic and well-publicized incidents that Canadians think they know all about, and that some people still think characterize the people in the Army, are now almost all well over a decade behind us. We've come a very long way, as witnessed by some of the very astute posts in response to jimiscanadian's stream of utter rubbish. The point is, we still have a long way to go. We can't stop now, or perhaps ever. We will probably never have Canadians jamming the recruiting centres in peace time, but we have to ensure a steady flow of enough good people to make things work. The last thing we want is to have a young Canadian, who might be a great soldier, turn his back on us because '' they don't want people like me''.
How to do it? Quotas and other such tripe are useless rubbish and will achieve nothing, IMHO. We have to reach out, through recruiting, through community involvement, through Regtl associations, or whatever we can think of. If we don't take the initiative, who will? I am reminded of a recent speech by the CDS at CFC, in which he described visiting an Ottawa mosque and talking with the elders, and the relationship he has developed with them. He pointed out how important this kind of thing is, and how little we generally do of it.
It may seem ''PC'' and not ''in our lane'' to do such things, but our survival as an institution is our responsibility, and that means making sure as many interested Canadians as can meet the standard are happy to join and comfortable to serve. And if that means that some people ***** in their beer down at the Legion about the 'damned immigrants wrecking this country we built', so be it. When, exactly, did we stop building Canada?
Cheers
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 684
- Points
- 1,040
[pure stream-of-thought]Perhaps, from the Army point of view, take a leaf from the British? Stand up some culturally distinct Reserve units a la Highland, Irish, and Welsh regiments. [/pure stream-of-thought]pbi said:
Also, perhaps encourage non-Christian "faith leaders" to join the Chaplain Corps - within my incredibly limited experience, I've never heard of one, although I'm sure they exist.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 223
- Points
- 710
quadrapiper said:
Are you on drugs? I ask, because all of these things already exist, so your post is a waste of airtime.
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 684
- Points
- 1,040
Sorry, I was thinking something along the lines of "3rd Battalion, Surrey Sikh Light Infantry" or whatever - is there a unit or program like that already in existence? As I said, like the British... only a different set of cultures, wierd hats, languages, and strange food.George Wallace said:
Besides, it couldn't be as much a waste of airtime as the running PC-non-PC-racist-whatever catfight earlier in this thread...
As to the chaplains, please excuse my ignorance... what religions, other than Christianity, have you come across?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 260
There is one Muslim chaplain in the CF. He was the first, and completed his training about two years ago - I might be off by a year.
I don't know of any other non-Christian chaplains currently serving, but I believe there is a movement on to recruit more.
During the Bold Eagle program (basic training for all Native platoons) some Native elders were given a rank of captain and performed a role similar to, though not exactly the same, as chaplain.
I don't know of any other non-Christian chaplains currently serving, but I believe there is a movement on to recruit more.
During the Bold Eagle program (basic training for all Native platoons) some Native elders were given a rank of captain and performed a role similar to, though not exactly the same, as chaplain.
- Reaction score
- 2,917
- Points
- 940
quadrapiper said:
Believe it or not, every generation has this same argument. I recall my father telling me how it was those foreigners, you know, the Irish, who screwed things up. Now you blithely include them amongst "us." I had a grandmother who died still strongly believing Roman Catholics were an abomination, with Anglicans a close second for hell; Muslim, Judaic, Sikh, etc didn't even register on her radar.
While there will always be cro-magnons within any group, including the military, I think the CF is well ahead of many other groups in embracing diversity; look how many corporations trumpet their liberalism by showcasing women amongst the directors - - white, anglo women to be sure, but look...women! :
It requires merely an open mind and the flexibility to adopt possibly different recruiting themes. As for a "different set of cultures, weird hats, languages, and strange food".....I've raised teenagers
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 223
- Points
- 710
:
Let see what a Search will turn up shall we?
Accommodations for Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25815.0.html
Religious Discussion http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31971.0.html
The Affects of New Religions on Canadian Society http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34470.0.html
Christmas Traditions and Political Correctness Gone Awild http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37441.0.html
Religion and Politics http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18077.0.html
Dog Tags http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20810.0.html
Question of religious rights http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/3852.0.html
Non Christian Chaplain: Possible? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26792.0.html
Is the CAF as diversified as canada is? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37.0.html
Political Correctness gone too far? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36422.0.html
"Multi-cultural" Vs "Visible Minorities". http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/38628.0.html
Accommodations for other "Non-Religions" by Canadian Society (Split) http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/45181.0.html
Role of the Padre http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4270.0.html
Role of the CF Padres http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29182.0.html
Non Christian Chaplain: Possible? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26792.0.html
Christians? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16677.0.html
Uniforms http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,67.0.html
Now that I have wasted the majority of my morning doing work for you can you do some for me?
I would strongly advise you to READ these following items FIRST:
MSN and ICQ "short hand" - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html
Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446
Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html
FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412
Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf
Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced
Army.ca wiki pages - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
Let see what a Search will turn up shall we?
Accommodations for Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25815.0.html
Religious Discussion http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31971.0.html
The Affects of New Religions on Canadian Society http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34470.0.html
Christmas Traditions and Political Correctness Gone Awild http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37441.0.html
Religion and Politics http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/18077.0.html
Dog Tags http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20810.0.html
Question of religious rights http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/3852.0.html
Non Christian Chaplain: Possible? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26792.0.html
Is the CAF as diversified as canada is? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37.0.html
Political Correctness gone too far? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36422.0.html
"Multi-cultural" Vs "Visible Minorities". http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/38628.0.html
Accommodations for other "Non-Religions" by Canadian Society (Split) http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/45181.0.html
Role of the Padre http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/4270.0.html
Role of the CF Padres http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/29182.0.html
Non Christian Chaplain: Possible? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26792.0.html
Christians? http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16677.0.html
Uniforms http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,67.0.html
Now that I have wasted the majority of my morning doing work for you can you do some for me?
I would strongly advise you to READ these following items FIRST:
MSN and ICQ "short hand" - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html
Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446
Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html
FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412
Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html
Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html
Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977
Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf
Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced
Army.ca wiki pages - http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 684
- Points
- 1,040
Thanks!
Anyone have any info on the Bold Eagle program? Searched the site - and the wiki - found many references, but no significant detail, beyond the obvious: First Nations-specific BMQ course, with, apparently, elders as temp Capt-rank chaplain-equivalents.
Also, when I said "only a different set of cultures, wierd hats, languages, and strange food" I was thinking of Highlanders... Gaelic-infused, haggis-eating, balmoral-wearing, and a home to both genuine Scots and various others... although I take your teenager point.
[off-topic]Really, since society can handle the disturbances caused by each new generation of teenagers (especially this most recent one), the racket made about immigrants eroding Canadian/American culture/lifestyle seems strange... society (and the CF) survived hippies, disco, and the eighties![/off-topic]
Sorry about any forehead-slapping ignorance; I fit firmly into the "interested in" rather than "informed about" category, regarding the Army especially, and the CF in general.
Anyone have any info on the Bold Eagle program? Searched the site - and the wiki - found many references, but no significant detail, beyond the obvious: First Nations-specific BMQ course, with, apparently, elders as temp Capt-rank chaplain-equivalents.
Also, when I said "only a different set of cultures, wierd hats, languages, and strange food" I was thinking of Highlanders... Gaelic-infused, haggis-eating, balmoral-wearing, and a home to both genuine Scots and various others... although I take your teenager point.
[off-topic]Really, since society can handle the disturbances caused by each new generation of teenagers (especially this most recent one), the racket made about immigrants eroding Canadian/American culture/lifestyle seems strange... society (and the CF) survived hippies, disco, and the eighties![/off-topic]
Sorry about any forehead-slapping ignorance; I fit firmly into the "interested in" rather than "informed about" category, regarding the Army especially, and the CF in general.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 260
quadrapiper said:
http://www.armee.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=284
May fall under the 'obvious,' but it has some detail and a toll free phone number for more info.
quadrapiper
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 684
- Points
- 1,040
Interesting - thanks! Searched DND; found the program site: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/boldeagle/contents.htm; I wasn't able to access the ...forces.gc.ca sites earlier.probum non poenitet said:
Sounds almost cadet-like... (runs away from shower of stones) Anyone have personal experience with the program? Or background info on same - like how many grads actually join the CF?
- Reaction score
- 8
- Points
- 130
Journeyman said:Believe it or not, every generation has this same argument. I recall my father telling me how it was those foreigners, you know, the Irish, who screwed things up. Now you blithely include them amongst "us." I had a grandmother who died still strongly believing Roman Catholics were an abomination, with Anglicans a close second for hell; Muslim, Judaic, Sikh, etc didn't even register on her radar.
While there will always be cro-magnons within any group, including the military, I think the CF is well ahead of many other groups in embracing diversity; look how many corporations trumpet their liberalism by showcasing women amongst the directors - - white, anglo women to be sure, but look...women! :
It requires merely an open mind and the flexibility to adopt possibly different recruiting themes. As for a "different set of cultures, weird hats, languages, and strange food".....I've raised teenagers
Oh, what a wonderful simile. I love it! you are right on. Yet so many people seem totally unable to adapt and accept.
good for you. Thanks.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 410
quadrapiper said:
I was involved in a limited way in 2002-2005 (the HQ I was Chief of Staff of had a role in running Bold Eagle). While it was generally well subscribed, and quite popular with band leadership, as far as I know it produced almost nothing in the way of recruits for either the Res or the RegF. This is one of the negative things that opponents of Bold Eagle sometimes trot out. Personally, I think that anything that the CF (and Canada in general...) can do to improve relations with First Nations, and help them get sorted out, is good.
Cheers
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I attended the grad parade of Bold Eagle in 1999. Many of the families and elders were present, and I their pride was quite apparant. It was also quite clear that the recruits had put a lot of effort into the training. They retained their cultural background to be sure, but I also believe they returned home as better 'citizens'.
- Reaction score
- 6,221
- Points
- 1,260
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from the National Post web site are three letters to the editor that hark back to the original question in this thread:
--------------------
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1050026
The (mostly white) faces of 100 heroes
National Post Published: Tuesday, December 09, 2008
Re: One Hundred To Remember, Dec. 6.
I applaud the heroism of the 100 Canadian soldiers who have lost their lives in the conflict in Afghanistan. Their dedication to freeing Afghan men, women and children from the horrors of the Taliban has been unwavering. I considered it a duty to read all their names and military designations; to fix my glance on so many young and noble faces seems the least that I could do to honour their sacrifice.
Yet in doing so, I realize that politically correct multiculturism seems oddly absent in this pictorial representation. Out of the 100, only three soldiers appear to be nonwhite. How curious.
Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson,
Delta, B. C.
-------------------
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1059820
Heroes & freedom
National Post Published: Thursday, December 11, 2008
Re: The (Mostly White) Faces Of 100 Heroes, letter to the editor, Dec. 9.
Like letter-writer Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson, I too find it curious that minorities are, apparently, not well represented among those who have stepped forward to defend Canada and have died for this country. Are there truly so few minorities in our Armed Forces? Are they just lucky? Or is it that nowadays many people come here to enjoy this country's freedoms, but are encouraged to stay in cliquey communities instead of learning firsthand just how Canada's history and values have helped to shape our freedoms -- freedoms that ought to be defended?
Anita Kern,
Toronto.
--------------------
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1118174
Visible minorities in the Armed Forces
National Post Published: Saturday, December 27, 2008
Re: The (Mostly White) Faces Of 100 Heroes, letter, Dec. 9; Our Ethnically Diverse Forces, letter, Dec. 23.
Since writing my Dec. 9 letter commenting on the number of white soldiers killed in Afghanistan, five more white soldiers have lost their lives. I based my comments entirely on the pictures of the dead 97 white men. No matter how much people such as letter-writer Captain Keith Lobo dislike this fact, visible minorities are poorly represented in the Canadian military.
Statistics Canada and the Department of National Defence both stated that visible minorities comprise just 6% of our military, with no one offering a rational explanation for this sorry state.
Would more visible minorities do their patriotic duty, should Canada find itself in a wider and more deadly conflict? That remains to be seen.
Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson,
Delta, B. C.
--------------------
There is no answer to the loaded (with much bias) question at the end: ”Would more visible minorities do their patriotic duty, should Canada find itself in a wider and more deadly conflict?”
Some cultures have an anti-military bias. There is an old Chinese saying - ”You don’t use good iron to make horseshoe nails and you don’t use good men to make soldiers” – that sums up the Confucian disdain for the military craft (and for crafts in general). Some immigrants still have pretty well founded fears of the uniformed services in their former homelands and transfer their suspicions to the uniformed services in the new homes – ask police forces about their problems in recruiting visible minorities. Some immigrant cultures put a real premium on the educational/economic futures if their children and the armed forces is not perceived to be a “high value” profession.
And yes, I know it is a very old thread. I, personally, prefer to resurrect old threads that have relevant details rather than just start a new one.
--------------------
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1050026
The (mostly white) faces of 100 heroes
National Post Published: Tuesday, December 09, 2008
Re: One Hundred To Remember, Dec. 6.
I applaud the heroism of the 100 Canadian soldiers who have lost their lives in the conflict in Afghanistan. Their dedication to freeing Afghan men, women and children from the horrors of the Taliban has been unwavering. I considered it a duty to read all their names and military designations; to fix my glance on so many young and noble faces seems the least that I could do to honour their sacrifice.
Yet in doing so, I realize that politically correct multiculturism seems oddly absent in this pictorial representation. Out of the 100, only three soldiers appear to be nonwhite. How curious.
Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson,
Delta, B. C.
-------------------
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1059820
Heroes & freedom
National Post Published: Thursday, December 11, 2008
Re: The (Mostly White) Faces Of 100 Heroes, letter to the editor, Dec. 9.
Like letter-writer Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson, I too find it curious that minorities are, apparently, not well represented among those who have stepped forward to defend Canada and have died for this country. Are there truly so few minorities in our Armed Forces? Are they just lucky? Or is it that nowadays many people come here to enjoy this country's freedoms, but are encouraged to stay in cliquey communities instead of learning firsthand just how Canada's history and values have helped to shape our freedoms -- freedoms that ought to be defended?
Anita Kern,
Toronto.
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http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1118174
Visible minorities in the Armed Forces
National Post Published: Saturday, December 27, 2008
Re: The (Mostly White) Faces Of 100 Heroes, letter, Dec. 9; Our Ethnically Diverse Forces, letter, Dec. 23.
Since writing my Dec. 9 letter commenting on the number of white soldiers killed in Afghanistan, five more white soldiers have lost their lives. I based my comments entirely on the pictures of the dead 97 white men. No matter how much people such as letter-writer Captain Keith Lobo dislike this fact, visible minorities are poorly represented in the Canadian military.
Statistics Canada and the Department of National Defence both stated that visible minorities comprise just 6% of our military, with no one offering a rational explanation for this sorry state.
Would more visible minorities do their patriotic duty, should Canada find itself in a wider and more deadly conflict? That remains to be seen.
Elizabeth Rafferty Lawson,
Delta, B. C.
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There is no answer to the loaded (with much bias) question at the end: ”Would more visible minorities do their patriotic duty, should Canada find itself in a wider and more deadly conflict?”
Some cultures have an anti-military bias. There is an old Chinese saying - ”You don’t use good iron to make horseshoe nails and you don’t use good men to make soldiers” – that sums up the Confucian disdain for the military craft (and for crafts in general). Some immigrants still have pretty well founded fears of the uniformed services in their former homelands and transfer their suspicions to the uniformed services in the new homes – ask police forces about their problems in recruiting visible minorities. Some immigrant cultures put a real premium on the educational/economic futures if their children and the armed forces is not perceived to be a “high value” profession.
And yes, I know it is a very old thread. I, personally, prefer to resurrect old threads that have relevant details rather than just start a new one.
