Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[jollyjacktar]

Apparently daddy never took the kid back to the home country for a Thursday night visit if Orlando set him off.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Apparently daddy never took the kid back to the home country for a Thursday night visit if Orlando set him off.

Tough crowd ...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Just say'n...

 

[The Bread Guy]

More grist for the mill, from an imam & the ex-wife ...

... Mateen was the son of an Afghan immigrant who had a talk show in the United States, the nature of which was not entirely clear: A former Afghan official said the program was pro-Taliban and a former colleague said it was enthusiastically pro-American.

He attended evening prayer services at the city's Islamic Center three to four times a week, most recently with his young son, said Imam Syed Shafeeq Rahman. Although he was not very social, he also showed no signs of violence, Rahman said. He said he last saw Mateen on Friday.

"When he finished prayer he would just leave," Rahman told The Associated Press. "He would not socialize with anybody. He would be quiet. He would be very peaceful."

He was also bipolar, Mateen's ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, told reporters in Boulder, Colorado.

"He was mentally unstable and mentally ill," Yusufiy said. Although records show the couple didn't divorce for two years after the marriage, Yusiufiy said she was actually only with Mateen for four months because he was abusive. She said he would not let her speak to her family and that family members had to come and literally pull her out of his arms ...

 

[a_majoor]

Latest updates:

http://heatst.com/politics/terror-in-orlando-50-dead-53-wounded-in-florida-nightclub-nightmare/?mod=sm_tw_post

UPDATES: Terror in Orlando: 50 Dead, 53 Wounded in Florida Nightclub Nightmare
By Emily Zanotti | 4:58 am, June 13, 2016
UPDATE, 5:00 AM:

Images of those killed by the gunman – some of whose names were published by the city – are beginning to surface and be widely reproduced:

A sobering update from the Associated Press told how authorities at the Pulse nightclub were still removing dozens of bodies in the small hours of Monday morning.

UPDATE, 11:00 PM:

Police are now saying that Omar Mateen has ties to radical Mulim leader, Marcus Dwayne Robertson. Mateen took online classes and interacted with Robertson through Robertson’s Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary, based in Orlando.

The FBI reportedly contacted Robertson and several of his associates for questioning Sunday afternoon. Robertson’s attorney failed to confirm whether his client was associated with the ongoing investigation.

The gunman also attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce; he was seen there two days before Sunday’s attack, in the company of Imam Shafiq Rahman. The Islamic Center is reportedly associated with the American-born suicide bomber, Monar abu Salha, who was discovered in Syria several years ago. According to Fox News, it was Mateen’s association with abu Salha that led the FBI to question him in 2013.

UPDATE, 10:30 PM:

Stories are now emerging from the survivors of this morning’s terrorist attack.

Survivors told ABC News that the shooter asked club goers their race before opening fire and said that America “needs to stop bombing ISIS.” Several clubgoers describe being trapped in the club and unable to leave as the gunman moved through the club.


Witnesses also describe a chaotic triage situation in the club’s parking lot, as emergency response teams tried to isolate the most seriously injured.

UPDATE, 5:15 PM:

The city or Orlando is now releasing the names of victims as families are being notified.

The ATF has also released a statement that the guns used in today’s terrorist attack were purchased legally.


Omar Mateen was a licensed security guard working for a Federal contractor. He had the appropriate permits and passed a background check.

UPDATE, 4:25 PM:

Donald Trump has called on President Obama to “resign in disgrace” if he won’t publicly link the shooting to Islamic terrorism.



UPDATE, 3:20pm:

The FBI is now going into greater details about Omar Mateen’s background and terror ties.



ISIS has also claimed responsibility for the attacks but there is still no evidence to support a claim that Mateen coordinated with a terrorist network.



UPDATE, 2:00pm:

President Obama has spoken to the nation, confirming that today’s events in Orlando were an act of terror. He assured Orlando authorities that the will receive all necessary resources.

UPDATE, 1:45pm:

Authorities have arrested a suspect with an “arsenal” reportedly intending to disrupt an LA gay pride event. We do not know whether this incident is related to Orlando.

UPDATE, 1:30pm:

National media is now reporting that the shooter called authorities to pledge allegiance to ISIS before the attack.


Local and Federal authorities are now searching the shooters apartment.

###

A young American gunman, armed with multiple weapons and what police are terming “devices”, left at least 50 dead and 53 wounded in a horrific attack on Pure, a prominent LGBT nightclub in Orlando, Florida this morning. The shooter, whom the FBI has identified as Omar Mateen, opened fire around 2 am, and was eventually killed in a shootout with the Orlando Police’s SWAT team about three hours later.

This is a developing story with enormous implications not only for the loved ones of those murdered and wounded — but also across the political and cultural spectra.  Conversations are already raging across social media about terrorism, gay rights, gun rights, religion and, of course, how this tragedy could affect the Presidential election.

Police and FBI officials believe the act to be “terrorism”, but at this early point it appears to be the work of an American citizen with no clear links to international terror networks beyond general inspiration. Officials are briefing reporters every two hours.

Our thoughts are with the families and friends of the victims and with the Orlando community.

What We Know:

At least 50 people are dead and 53 injured in an attack on a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Eyewitness accounts are emerging.

This is already being considered the worst mass shooting in US history.

Officers shot and killed the suspect who they say was named Omar Mateen. One officer was injured.

Early reports indicate that the shooter had been known to the FBI as someone with terrorist sympathies.

The shooter had received weapons training and was armed with several guns and an “explosive device”.

Officials are calling the incident “terrorism”, but have yet to say whether or not the shooter had any real connections to an international terrorist organization.

The gunman’s father told NBC News in a statement that his son did not have any ties to terrorism but had been “angry” since seeing two men kissing in Miami several months ago.

 

[tomahawk6]

Its not good for the islamic terror deniers.No question in my mind that both the shooter and the dad were radicalized to one degree or another.Or to be a good muslim all you have to do is kill non-believers according to the Quran.You arent a radical you are main stream.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html#/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

More grist for the mill, from an imam & the ex-wife ...

Which means they never filed a police report, because had they, he would have not gotten a CCW permit in Florida and a guy who was questioned by the FBI twice about terror links passes a FFL background check?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Apparently daddy never took the kid back to the home country for a Thursday night visit if Orlando set him off.

Or an alternative theory (100% pure speculation pulled out of my ... hat ... for the purpose of debate/discussion/ :stirpot:  he may have ...

 

[mariomike]

Regarding Orlando,

"Medics delayed by suspicious device" They mistakenly thought the gunman had strapped explosives to the dead after a bomb robot sent back images of a battery part next to a body.

"Orlando first responders had to make their way through a 'cacophony of ringing unanswered cellphones' "

To locate survivors, the crew called out, "If you are alive, raise your hand."

If it was 2 AM, by that time some of the guests may have been pretty well lubricated or high. They say it took a while to get the dance music turned off and for guests to realize a massacre was in progress.

From reading about other nightclub disasters, ( And one place in particular that I remember from my youth that was a disaster waiting to happen, entirely thanks to a greedy management. )

I hope,

1) The joint wasn't over legal capacity with customers.

2 ) The emergency exits were up to code, well marked and usable.

Eyewitness says emergency exit door at Orlando nightclub shooting was being held shut from outside. Then his call gets dropped on national television.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=842_1465800800#DjB2YP36iPR7ifDq.99

I read that 9,000 counselors and therapists descended on New York City after 9/11.

Not sure how many are headed to Orlando,

Counselors used after 9/11 will be on hand to help in Orlando
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/how-first-resonders-in-the-orlando-shooting-deal-with-the-emotional-toll

 

[Jarnhamar]

Its not good for the islamic terror deniers.No question in my mind that both the shooter and the dad were radicalized to one degree or another. Or to be a good muslim all you have to do is kill non-believers according to the Quran.You arent a radical you are main stream.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html#/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

I think you nailed it.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Haven't had a chance to follow much.

Have Islamic leaders organized vigils of their followers in front of the club to make it clear that the actions were not representative of what they are teaching?

 

[AbdullahD]

I think you nailed it.

Definitely....
http://www.evilbible.com/evil-bible-home-page/murder-in-the-bible/

https://islamqa.info/en/10923

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askmufti/45514

Anywho. Let's not do this here? Or do we have to?

 

[AbdullahD]

Haven't had a chance to follow much.

Have Islamic leaders organized vigils of their followers in front of the club to make it clear that the actions were not representative of what they are teaching?

Vigils I am not sure about, but my feeds were full of scholars denouncing it. I can look around for Vigils if you want... but I am about to crash again. Working nights. So it may be quicker for you to Google it.

 

[mariomike]

Have Islamic leaders organized vigils of their followers in front of the club to make it clear that the actions were not representative of what they are teaching?

City asks community to "hold off on vigils," citing strain on public safety resources
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2016/06/12/city-asks-community-to-hold-off-on-vigils-citing-strain-on-public-safety-resources
Central Florida's police officers, EMTs, medical professionals, firefighters and other first responders and emergency personnel have been stressed beyond belief in the past 48 hours, and they need some rest.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Have Islamic leaders organized vigils of their followers in front of the club to make it clear that the actions were not representative of what they are teaching?

At the club, not that I've heard of - likely because of what mariomike posted.  Spotted this with a quick Google-fu:  " Later today (12 June), the Council of Sacramento Valley Islamic Organizations (COSVIO), an umbrella organization of Muslim organizations in the Sacramento Valley which the Sacramento Valley chapter of the Council on American Islamic is a member of, alongside The Sacramento LGBT Community Center, will hold a press conference and rally to condemn the deadly shooting spree at a nightclub in Orlando, Florida that left at least 50 people dead and another 53 injured ..."

Haven't had a chance to follow much.

How's this for a start?

• "The National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM), a prominent civil liberties & advocacy organization, categorically condemns the mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida ..."
• " The Islamic Center of America (ICA) strongly condemns the recent mass murder in Orlando Florida ..."
• "The Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association (AMYA) - the male youth auxiliary of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA - conveys its condolences and prayers for the victims of Sunday’s tragic shooting in Orlando. AMYA categorically condemns this senseless act of violence and prejudice. The faith of Islam reveres and holds all life as sacred ..."
• Dated 12 Jun:  "CAIR-FL to Respond to Florida Night Club Shooting, Urge Muslims to Donate Blood for Victims"

Meanwhile, this didn't take long ...

• "Orlando Nightclub Shooting Another False Flag?" (via veteranstoday.com)
• "Breaking News! Omar Mateen Did Not Act Alone! Proof of False Flag Conspiracy" (via thecommonsenseshow.com)
• "Orlando Shootings: Terrorism or False Flag?" (via globalresearch.ca)

 

[Jarnhamar]

Anywho. Let's not do this here? Or do we have to?

"Here" seems like the ideal place to do this.  You know,  in the Islamic terrorisim in the west thread.

 

[a_majoor]

Glenn Reynolds (Instapundit) compares this to a 4GW operation. Our security, law enforcement and civil liberties structures are not designed to deal with this sort of attack. (definitionally, "Fourth-generation warfare (4GW) uses all available networks — political, economic, social, and military — to convince the enemy’s political decision makers that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly for the perceived benefit. It is an evolved form of insurgency. Still rooted in the fundamental precept that superior political will, when properly employed, can defeat greater economic and military power, 4GW makes use of society’s networks to carry on its fight. Unlike previous generations of warfare, it does not attempt to win by defeating the enemy’s military forces. Instead, via the networks, it directly attacks the minds of enemy decision makers to destroy the enemy’s political will. Fourth-generation wars are lengthy — measured in decades rather than months or years.").

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-omar-mateen-islam-terrorism-column/85794088/

Glenn Reynolds: An untraditional war
Glenn Harlan Reynolds 8:54 a.m. EDT June 13, 2016
We can't stop ISIL-inspired massacres if we deny we're fighting Islam's jihadist strain.

In the wake of the Orlando shootings, people are trotting out the usual post-massacre talking points about gun control, terrorism, etc. But the solutions aren’t so easy.

Gun control is much stricter in Europe, but that hasn’t stopped mass shootings like the ones at Charlie Hebdo’s offices or at the Bataclan concert hall. (It’s also very strict in California, but that didn’t stop the shootings at San Bernardino.) Talking about gun control is mostly a way of avoiding a tough problem.

Donald Trump, meanwhile, was quick to tweet out that this vindicates his positions: “Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!” But Trump’s proposal of a temporary moratorium on immigration of Muslims to America wouldn’t have prevented shooter Omar Mateen’s actions. Mateen wasn’t a recent immigrant but a  U.S. citizen born of Afghan parents, and he pledged allegiance to the Islamic State terrorist group, according to a Department of Homeland Security report cited by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

The thing is, proposals such as gun control are basically peacetime remedies, which don’t apply in time of war. But traditional wartime remedies might not work, either, because this is not a traditional war.

Instead, what we are facing is what William S. Lind calls “fourth-generation warfare.” Or maybe it’s even fifth-generation warfare: We’re not fighting armies. We’re not fighting guerrillas. We’re not even fighting traditional terrorists. Instead, we’re fighting an opponent who turns apparently law-abiding citizens (Mateen was licensed as a security guard and thus had passed background checks) into killers without anyone noticing. They’re not actually “lone wolf” terrorists; they’re more like human drones, attacking distant targets on command without warning.

Well, that last isn’t quite true. There were warning signs with the San Bernardino shooters, whose neighbors reportedly didn’t want to call the cops for fear of being thought racist. And there were warning signs with Mateen, who apparently had been on security officials’ radar screen for some time but not enough to do anything about it. Classmates of Nidal Hassan said he regularly spouted Islamist propaganda months before he shot up Fort Hood, but the military was too politically correct to do anything and afterward tried for some time to pretend that his deliberate, jihadist attack was merely “workplace violence.”

To prevent this sort of event in the future, we need to do several things.

First, interrupt the flow of radicalizing propaganda at the source: ISIL and various other jihadist outfits need to be neutralized or destroyed. These organizations pursue a deliberate strategy of radicalizing Muslims in Western countries to turn them into terrorists, and they operate networks of sympathizers throughout the USA. We used to cozy up to the Saudis, but thanks to hydraulic fracturing we don’t really need their oil anymore, so they need to be told to put a stop to this sort of support or else. We likely could have nipped ISIL in the bud a few years ago at minimal cost — or kept it from sprouting in the first place by maintaining a presence in Iraq — but it needs to be brought down now.

Vigils were held around the country grieving for the more than 50 people who were killed in a mass shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando. Meanwhile, the wife of the shooter is calling him "mentally ill." (June 12) AP

We also need to be clear about what it is we’re fighting. We’re not fighting Islam as such. Many good Muslims are horrified by this violence. But we are fighting the jihadist strain of Islam, and unfortunately quite a few Muslims view that strain as legitimate.

We can’t allow ourselves to be blinded to this reality, unless we want to see jihadist attacks like this — which have, sadly, become normal in the past few years — continue and increase.

Glenn Harlan Reynolds, a University of Tennessee law professor and the author of The New School: How the Information Age Will Save American Education from Itself, is a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors.

 

[AbdullahD]

"Here" seems like the ideal place to do this.  You know,  in the Islamic terrorisim in the west thread.

LOL fair enough, I guess I more meant at this time. Anyways, the first link was to place your statement in a religious context, second one was to show that murder generally was forbidden and third one was to show killing non-Muslims specifically was forbidden.

So was I thorough enough to debunk the statement?

 

[AbdullahD]

Shayk Yasir Qadhi tipped me off to this via fb feed and I ran to Google to get something substantial to post.

It looks like Omar mateen was a homosexual himself and frequented the pub he shot up, allegedly bouncers had to throw him out occasionally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-was-a-regular-at-lgbt-nightclub-pulse-before-atta/

 

[The Bread Guy]

It looks like Omar mateen was a homosexual himself and frequented the pub he shot up, allegedly bouncers had to throw him out occasionally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-was-a-regular-at-lgbt-nightclub-pulse-before-atta/

Just spotted a few similar hits myself ...

• "Homicidal homophobe used to hang at Orlando gay hotspot, some regulars recall"
• MSNBC:  "Here's what reporting we know: several people on the record saying shooter was on several gay dating apps and messaged with them..."
• ABC News:  "Former Pulse security guard tells ABC News she is "100% sure" she had thrown the #Orlando shooter out of the club multiple times in the past"

Yet another ingredient for the "what drove him" stew ...