Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
- Thread starter George Wallace
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How does all this jibe with the statement (by his father?) that the catalyst was when he became enraged when he was two men kissing in Miami?
I fear there is too much unsubstantiated information or rumour floating around by an eager media and internet "experts" to reach a conclusion. Best that we wait for the professionals to complete their investigation. And if any of us believe their findings will be received and accepted as valid, well, lots of luck.
I fear there is too much unsubstantiated information or rumour floating around by an eager media and internet "experts" to reach a conclusion. Best that we wait for the professionals to complete their investigation. And if any of us believe their findings will be received and accepted as valid, well, lots of luck.
Remius said:
Fair points, but what could he be looking for that would take two years on the inside to find.
Bars are not exactly that hard to scout out I hate to say it... I could believe a couple weekends... he'll even a couple months... but a couple years sounds like he liked it to me...
Full disclosure as always I have zero knowledge of warfare and if I'm being an idiot here call me on it... but how he did this it just seemed to simple to need two years of research...
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
Maybe he just sucked at research.
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One more theory to throw into the sausage machine: #selfhatecrime?Old Sweat said:
As is always the case with such attacks. This one, though, I think seems to hit a wider range of buttons than the (relatively more) cut-and-dried "guy/gal (with or without mental illness) is radicalized => hurts/kills cop/soldier/symbol of the state-society" events.Old Sweat said:
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AbdullahD said:
Honestly no, not at all, and I'll explain why.
I can drop a quote like
To me that's straight forward. Cut peoples heads off if they don't believe in Allah.
Now you get all these kinds of scholars who try and pick apart the various spiritual angles and different contexts and "well what they really mean" etc. When I hear someone trying to put cutting someone's head and finger tips off into a "spiritual" context it sounds like Bullshit and no different to me that when I catch a student (or child) doing something wrong they come up with 101 reasons about what they kinda sorta really are doing. "No its not how it looks, that's not what I mean, I meant to do this , I just thought no cell phones meant no texting, maybe but this and that, you don't understand" Willy nilly stuff.
The problem with Islam, one of many, is that these" friendly scholars" are all but ignored by the masses. Too many Muslims (the world over) take "cut their heads off" in its most literal form.
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Regarding this joint in Orlando. I am sure the investigators will check if they were obeying the occupancy limits and emergency exit regulations at the time of the massacre.
I'm not a daytime inspector, but I remember some nightclubs that looked to me on emergency night calls like death-traps waiting to happen. Overcrowded and problems with the emergency exits. This was intentional so customers would not sneak out without paying and/or let their friends in without paying the door charge.
We always tried to use the emergency exits, and got to see the problems.
Cocoanut Grove in Boston with 492 fatalities ( hundreds more were injured ) in a single night was the worst historical example of what could go wrong in a night-club. That was an accident. One can only imagine how many in a terror attack.
Stories such as this,
Club safety measures questioned after Orlando shooting
"...prompting questions about exit plans and code enforcement at crowded area bars and clubs."
“I would be concerned now about the emergency exits ’cause it gets really full,”
“I don’t know of a lot of jurisdictions do the night inspections, where we go out while the clubs are in operation,”
I'm not a daytime inspector, but I remember some nightclubs that looked to me on emergency night calls like death-traps waiting to happen. Overcrowded and problems with the emergency exits. This was intentional so customers would not sneak out without paying and/or let their friends in without paying the door charge.
We always tried to use the emergency exits, and got to see the problems.
Cocoanut Grove in Boston with 492 fatalities ( hundreds more were injured ) in a single night was the worst historical example of what could go wrong in a night-club. That was an accident. One can only imagine how many in a terror attack.
Stories such as this,
Club safety measures questioned after Orlando shooting
"...prompting questions about exit plans and code enforcement at crowded area bars and clubs."
“I would be concerned now about the emergency exits ’cause it gets really full,”
“I don’t know of a lot of jurisdictions do the night inspections, where we go out while the clubs are in operation,”
Jarnhamar said:
Totally, because when you read a book you only read one fragment of a sentence to come up with your opinion of it all right?... not. So why only read one fragment of a sentence and condemn an entire religion? Links for you.
http://www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/surah8_12.htm
Here is work for you, find ALL the tafsir's of Quran and kindly show me witch ones do not put them in proper context. A couple to start with are ibn Kathir and maariful quran. Both are widely accepted by ALL sunni scholars that I have ever heard of. So if every single scholar agrees with putting something in context doesn't that make sense to do so?
Actually the context for this one isn't spiritual it is warfare... you kinda have to kill people in war the last I heard...
Okay but yeah maybe you should read it all... heck you don't really even have the full verse there... so yea I daresay an explanation is valid and acceptable not really apples to apples here.
Really? I have seen no evidence that the majority of Muslims take the literal meaning of isolated verses out of context. The majority seem to take it in context, only extremists take it out of context and when you have 1.8 billion or so Muslims you do end up having a couple hundred thousand extremists but they are not a significant percent.
Let's read the entire surah together and tell me if it makes more sense to take it in the context of an isolated battle or not.
http://quran.com/8
Abdullah
Post script edited for clarity new phone weird auto corrects.
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AbdullahD said:
It's not spiritual? It's warfare based on murdering anyone and everyone who isn't a believer. Nothing about protecting borders or land. It's murdering disbelievers where ever you find them. Murdering people for religious reasons sure sounds spiritual to me.
1. A couple hundred thousand extremists aren't a significant percent?
2. I've previously gave you a great example of an every day village of regular Islamic followers who turned berserk in moments and physically ripped a woman apart. A woman who was accused of ruining a book full if paper, which turned out to be false.
You're couple hundred thousand figure is vastly underestimated in my opinion.
I'm content watching the news and seeing what's being done in Allah's name by his followes.
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
She knew! Orlando terrorist's wife 'told the FBI she tried to talk him out of the attack', visited Pulse and other targets with him AND was there when he bought his arsenal of ammunition - but never called 911
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641206/She-knew-Orlando-terrorist-s-wife-told-FBI-tried-talk-attack-cooperating-authorities.html#ixzz4BZxFcw8M
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3641206/She-knew-Orlando-terrorist-s-wife-told-FBI-tried-talk-attack-cooperating-authorities.html#ixzz4BZxFcw8M
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Jarnhamar said:
Did you read any of the links I posted? I'm guessing no by this bit here. So please go back and do so otherwise there is no point to us discussing squat if your just going to ignore what I say.
Do you understand statistics? What percent is 200,000 let's say into.... 1.8 billion. Not very big.
Cool and that is accepted in Islam were? Because I saw a village of white Christians Lynch black guys before.... so that's Christianity right? Make sense? Just because idiots do something does not make it that they believe it is a religious need nor does it resemble the religion if it goes against that religions beliefs.
Mhmm and were is you proof that more then that are radicalized and believe in extreme Islam?
http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/terrorism-security/2015/0113/How-many-Muslim-extremists-are-there-Just-the-facts-please
Oops sorry it is not 200 it is 300,000 out of 1.8 billion and this is from the Christian Science Monitor, seems unbiased to me.
Because that is were we all find unbiased and honest opinions on everything, I'm going to run to Russia today to develop a view of North America! Because it's legit! Kinda see the problem here?
Or should I go to BDS websites to develop a view of Israel? If reading the entire sentence before making an opinion on something is to much... I suppose I can't expect more. Your view is so entrenched I don't see it changing.
You literally went off over a fragment of a sentence. If that is not enough to make you think I can't help. Go back and read those links. Try developing an unbiased opinion.
I'm not trying to attack you, this is all meant in the best of ways. But I am seriously amazed you seem to be still holding to the position that the fragment represents everything you ever needed to know...maybe if I went around judging people or things because of fragments of sentences.... it would be very concerning.
Take care Jarnhamar
Abdullah
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jollyjacktar said:
Interesting development. It'll be pretty tough to justify not warning somebody.
I wonder what the story is behind that British (?) army shirt he's wearing in one of the photos in the article jjt linked to...?
AbdullahD said:
Really? Seen it? I've only heard and read about it. No doubt also that some would be willing to keep at it if the law wouldn't stop them or if the rest of society wouldn't lynch them back.
I do get your point though. Slavery in the US isn't that far off in their history and they fought a bloody internal conflict over it. Something I think the Islamic world has yet to do (and may need, truth be told). Back then, blacks had edited copies of the bible with things like exodus removed, for fear they might rebel against their owners. Religion is sold a certain way based on the times, and the mood.
