Israel (IDF) versus Gaza aid ships- updates

[CougarKing]

Up to 16 people have been killed when Israeli naval commandos boarded aid ships bound for the Gaza Strip, meeting resistance from pro-Palestinian activists, Israel's Channel 10 television said.

The six-ship convoy carrying aid for Palestinians and led by a Turkish vessel with 600 people on board set sail for Gaza from international waters off Cyprus on Sunday in defiance of an Israeli-led blockade of the territory.

There was no immediate comment from Israel, where public radio quoted an unnamed Arab journalist aboard a ship as saying the navy intercepted the activists and that shooting was heard.

Vice premier Silvan Shalom told Israel Radio that Israeli forces would issue a report soon.


ABC news link

 

[jollyjacktar]

What a shit show this is going to turn into. 

 

[SeanNewman]

What a crap show this is going to turn into. 

As if BP's oil wasn't enough, Israel and North Korea being in two separate wars are going to make for an interesting summer.

 

[ShortBus]

Sure are exciting times we live in.

 

[GAP]

Break out the Blue Helmets.....Canada's next assignment is coming up!!! 

 

[bdave]

Break out the Blue Helmets.....Canada's next assignment is coming up!!! 

I don't see how we'd be able to do anything.
Israel wouldn't want us there.

 

[SeanNewman]

Israel wouldn't want us there.

Agreed in a neutral role.  However, (not that this would ever happen), if they could convince Canada to fight beside them in an alliance they'd be quite content, even if our AO was relatively small.

Of course the fall out for this would be a whole lot of Israel's enemies cursing a Jihad on us.

 

[GAP]

You guys are forgetting a return engagement in Korea, maybe with McCrystal doing an Inchon......history relives itself, and all that.... ;D

 

[TimBit]

Agreed in a neutral role.  However, (not that this would ever happen), if they could convince Canada to fight beside them in an alliance they'd be quite content, even if our AO was relatively small.

Of course the fall out for this would be a whole lot of Israel's enemies cursing a Jihad on us.

Yep, great idea Petamocto, sounds like the kind of thing we want to be doing, in this case sends the Navy to kill people on humanitarian convoys. I think the GoC would have more to fear from the electorate than from jihadis.

 

[SeanNewman]

Yep, great idea Petamocto...I think the GoC would have more to fear from the electorate than from jihadis.

Hi, it was a tongue-in-cheek post, sorry.  I'm saying Israel would love it if we took part, not us.

 

[TimBit]

Ah, I see  :blotto:

 

[The Bread Guy]

....from the IDF (includes YouTube video with a bit of the boarding raid):

Early this morning (May 31) the Israel Navy intercepted the flotilla after passengers on board ignored Israeli warnings. IDF forces met with severe pre-planned violence from the demonstrators, including use of live fire and light weaponry.

Early this morning, IDF Naval Forces intercepted six ships attempting to break the maritime closure of the Gaza Strip. This happened after numerous warnings from Israel and the Israeli Navy that were issued prior to the event. The Israeli Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over to the Gaza Strip after undergoing security inspections.

During the boarding of the Marmara ship, demonstrators onboard attacked the IDF Naval personnel with live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs. According to reports, two weapons used was grabbed from an IDF soldier. The demonstrators had clearly prepared their weapons in advance for this specific purpose.

As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, naval forces first employed riot dispersal means, followed by live fire.

According to initial reports, these events resulted in over ten deaths among the demonstrators and numerous injuries. In addition, five naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers were seriously wounded and the remainder sustained moderate injuries. All of the injured parties, Israelis and foreigners, are currently being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel.

Reports from IDF forces at the scene indicate that some of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.

The events are ongoing, and information will be updated as soon as possible. Israeli Naval commander, Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom is overseeing the events.

In the coming hours, the ships will be directed to the Ashdod port, while IDF naval forces perform security checks in order to identify the people on the ships and the cargo brought on board. The IDF Spokesman emphasizes that this event is currently unfolding and further details will be provided as soon as possible.

This IDF naval operation was carried out under orders from the political leadership to prevent the flotilla from reaching the Gaza Strip and breaching the maritime closure.

The boarding of ships in the flotilla followed numerous warnings given to the organizers of the flotilla before leaving their ports as well as while sailing towards the Gaza Strip. In these warnings, it was made clear to the organizers that they could dock in the Ashdod Sea Port and unload the equipment they are carrying in order to deliver it to the Gaza Strip in an orderly manner, following the appropriate security checks. Upon expressing their unwillingness to cooperate and arrive at the port, it was decided upon to board the ships and lead them to Ashdod.

IDF naval personnel encountered severe violence, including use of weaponry prepared in advance in order to attack them, as well as having their weapons stolen by protesters and used against them. The forces operated in adherence with operational commands and took all necessary actions in order to avoid violence, but to no avail.

 

[tomahawk6]

Once the protestors opened fire on the Israelis they were fair game.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Based on video of "aid workers" whaling away on IDF troops on the deck with chairs and metal rods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
it appears the Israelis had more than a right to defend themselves.  Yeah, give peace a chance, right?

 

[bdave]

edit: Added sources and factual evidence.

Based on video of "aid workers" whaling away on IDF troops on the deck with chairs and metal rods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
it appears the Israelis had more than a right to defend themselves.  Yeah, give peace a chance, right?

I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate.
Israel has a long history of 'over reacting' to threats.
It is no secret that their treatment of the Palestinian people is far from graceful, and at times borders on inhumane.
Over 20 000 Palestinian homes have been demolished due to Israel.[1]
Several thousand Palestinians have been killed due to Israel. [1][2][3][4]
Israel soldiers take pot shots, beat and humiliate Palestinians on a daily basis.
Notice I am saying 'Palestinian' and not 'Hamas'.
This is well documented and you have literally dozens of videos on youtube showing this.[5][6][7]

The Gaza flotilla refused to comply with Israel for whatever reason. Perhaps Israel had no right to demand for the flotilla to turn back?
Israel then decided to board the ships, against the wishes of those on board, in international waters.[8]:
Last I checked, Israel doesn't own Gaza.[9]
So how are they justified in invading a flotilla in international waters of a group of aid workers going to a country they [Israelis] do not legally own?[10]
How would you react if you saw a commando boarding the ship you were on, fully armed and ready? At that point, I would think you'd have grounds for believing they are there to kick some ***. Would you try to defend yourself, or just let them take over?

This is akin to an intruder breaking into your peaceful, quiet house and once you fight back, you are reprimanded/sued for not complying.

Is there something I am missing or do not know?
While I am playing devil's advocate, I honestly do not see how Israel was justified in any way.


Sources:
[1]::http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html
[2]:http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article3416.shtml
[3]:http://www.mepc.org/resources/mrates.asp
[4]:http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/casualties.asp
[5]:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ST5m9pREQ
[6]:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU
[7]:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
[8]:http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.protest/index.html?hpt=T2
[9]:http://books.google.com/books?id=DWhgIe3Hq98C&printsec=frontcover&dq=&ei=0NSUSZ2ANY6mNYju7KQJ&client=#v=onepage&q&f=false
[10]:http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/146E6838D505833F852560D600471E25

 

[Fishbone Jones]

OK folks. Rules for this discussion.

Keep it clean. Any inkling of racism will be met with the Warning System

Attack the facts not the person, ie: no ad hominem attacks.

No trolling.

Comments must be factual and linked to source. Pay attention to this one.

If you really don't have anything to add to the conversation. Keep out of it.

Posts deemed inappropriate or out of line by the Staff will be deleted. No explanation.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

bdave,

Please go back and incorporate this rule (Comments must be factual and linked to source.) to the points in your original post.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

  I have boarded ships on various missions in my time with the Navy and I will say not all were happy to see us come across. but you can be damned well sure if I thought my life was in jeopardy or those of my team mates, there would be no question, lethal force would be used.

Bdave... Regarding this Gaza flotilla, yeah it sucks some died but when you have a country surrounded by enemies that want your destruction and your way of life wiped off the face of the planet. I think reasonable person in the same situation would react the same way. These instigators peaceful protesters knew what they were getting into, they knew israel would not react well. I believe the old saying is "you reap what you sow".

  At the end of the day though, we were not there. We did not experience what both the IDF and the quasi terrorists peaceful protestors experienced so opinions may change as facts come out.

 

[PanaEng]

I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate.

that's good

Israel has a long history of 'over reacting' to threats.

Maybe that's one of the reasons they are still a country

How would you react if you saw a commando boarding the ship you were on, fully armed and ready? At that point, I would think you'd have grounds for believing they are there to kick some ***. Would you try to defend yourself, or just let them take over?

This is akin to an intruder breaking into your peaceful, quiet house and once you fight back, you are reprimanded/sued for not complying.

Maybe it's just me - I'm a lover after all (although, I fight when I have to  ;D ) - but if I see a bunch of goons storming through my front and side doors, armed to the teeth, and I look at what I have in my hand and it is only a stick/pipe (it is still a weapon - you can kill someone with that,) I would throw the stick away, lay down and bid my time rather than get shot at. JUST COMMON SENSE!

so yeah, I think you missed that part.

of course, whether it is legal or not, I won't  comment.

cheers,
Frank

 

[jollyjacktar]

There are two sides to a incident.  Usually it is actions taken/not taken on part of both sides that affect the outcome or cause the outcome.  So far, I have seen a bit of both in the form of video released by each side.  Both appear to be edited for public consumption.  Hopefully there will an impartial investigation from a third party which can get to the bottom of what happened and what went wrong.  I am sure there will be plenty of blame to go around and then some.

In the end it is a tragedy, plain and simple that people were killed and injured on both sides.