JTF2 Operators leaving CF to join PMCs

[tomahawk6]

Work with a PSC should not be considered as anything other than temporary employment and not a career. The US Army has countered the loss of senior special ops NCO's with bonus' up to $150,000. Those younger operators that do take a contract many have returned to service after the 12 month contract is over. The loss this week of 4 contractor's in an IED blast certainly highlight the danger.

 

[Big Red]

"BY ALL MEANS;  ENSURE YOU YOU NEVER NEED TO DRAW YOU WEAPON (if you do you have failed your mission)

IF YOU DO DRAW YOUR WEAPON....BE SURE YOU USE IT FIRST... then SHOOT N' SCOOT "

I don't agree at all that if you 'draw' (?) your weapon you have failed your mission.  Your mission is to protect the client, whether that involves brandishing your weapon, firing warning shots, or engaging a threat.  There is no point hiding your weapons, *they* know who you are. 

It would also be nice for the good guys to initiate every contact with AIF but as you know that is seldom possible.

 

[gnplummer421]

The thought of these guys leaving for higher paying jobs is understandable to me; They get more pay and they actually get to ply their trade and get some "real experience". I'm not saying that they have no experience (obviuosly places like Afghanistan would have given them some) but Iraq is definitely where the s#$t is happening...and I doubt our Government cares..they only care about personal financial and power growth.

 

[DFW2T]

"BY ALL MEANS;    ENSURE YOU YOU NEVER NEED TO DRAW YOU WEAPON (if you do you have failed your mission)

IF YOU DO DRAW YOUR WEAPON....BE SURE YOU USE IT FIRST... then SHOOT N' SCOOT "

I don't agree at all that if you 'draw' (?) your weapon you have failed your mission.   Your mission is to protect the client, whether that involves brandishing your weapon, firing warning shots, or engaging a threat.   There is no point hiding your weapons, *they* know who you are.  

It would also be nice for the good guys to initiate every contact with AIF but as you know that is seldom possible.

Big Red,
  You must have read my post wrong.  If you re-read (see above...my comments are in capitals, yours' are not) ..it say's  "ENSURE YOU NEVER NEED TO DRAW YOUR WEAPON....) That means,  if you need to do so,  you never planned a proper movement/mission.
  situational awareness
  route planning and selecion
  surveillance detection
  know your a/ambush drills / tac driving
  intel analysis and dissemination
  move O's
  proper employment of CAT and SAP teams  (if you don't know what those terms are, you shouldn't be telling me I'm wrong)
  .......I could go on

You can fail a mission AND get everyone to their objective safe and sound....but a PSO's/PSDs' objective is to avoid contact, utilize intel, and to plan proper movements, w/contingency plans.  The principles' physical and mental well being are what's important and why you are employed. You can't be QUICK DRAW McDRAW every time you hear a gunshot in Baghdad cause you (and those with you) will either become victim  to "BLUE on BLUE" and/or your principle will simply end up going home due to the stress and you are out of a job.

  One piece of "Bad Data" should shit can a whole mission.  It would on any of my details.

  Hence.... if you draw your weapon...you have failed your mission!

  DFW2T

 

[Dissident]

My question is, once they have left, do we want them back? Is there anything done to try and re-recruit ex-JTF2 guy's? If being over there is just as bad as being in, with better pay but no pension, some are bound to want back in? Or am I completly off base here?

 

[Big Red]

Big Red,
   You must have read my post wrong.   If you re-read (see above...my comments are in capitals, yours' are not) ..it say's   "ENSURE YOU NEVER NEED TO DRAW YOUR WEAPON....) That means,   if you need to do so,   you never planned a proper movement/mission.
  situational awareness
  route planning and selecion
  surveillance detection
  know your a/ambush drills / tac driving
  intel analysis and dissemination
  move O's
  proper employment of CAT and SAP teams   (if you don't know what those terms are, you shouldn't be telling me I'm wrong)
  .......I could go on

You can fail a mission AND get everyone to their objective safe and sound....but a PSO's/PSDs' objective is to avoid contact, utilize intel, and to plan proper movements, w/contingency plans.   The principles' physical and mental well being are what's important and why you are employed. You can't be QUICK DRAW McDRAW every time you hear a gunshot in Baghdad cause you (and those with you) will either become victim   to "BLUE on BLUE" and/or your principle will simply end up going home due to the stress and you are out of a job.

  One piece of "Bad Data" should crap can a whole mission.   It would on any of my details.

   Hence.... if you draw your weapon...you have failed your mission!

  DFW2T

You can do all the route planning you want, but if you're out on the road you're playing the lottery. Just because you took route A to your site and B back is irrelevant. On any given day dozens of MNFI will use the exact same routes.  You aren't a target of assassination, you are a target of opportunity.

I stand by my comments about 'drawing your weapon'.  By your logic 90% of the teams operating overtly 'fail' every single mission they undertake.

The majority of 'blue on blue' PSD incidents are those involving 'low profile' vehicles who don't play their own game properly when they encounter MFNI/other PSDs. I can't blame the guys who shoot at them and I felt the same way when it was me on the recieving end.

 

[KevinB]

A prime example of tgt of opportunity was a Triple Canopy convoy that got hit last year.

Two low pro sedans and a cargo vehicle (all hadji'd up)

Nearing the extrance to XXXXXX a van in traffic opened up on the trail vehicle -- they where spead out and not easily identified.
The van had a PKM mounted in back and shot thru the side of it at the rear level IV Mercedes - 7.62x54R AP ammo
 

Secondly both Iraq and Afghan are areas where you are open carry of weapons and you typically point your carbine at a number of people to get them to either back off or heed traffic laws.   How is that failure?

If you have to cut a swath thru insurgents and your client is okay and the team in fine -- heck you just made your pay...

Even a skilled SAP team will not be able to prevent you from being a tgt of opportunity - they are outriding and gone to secure the venue -- the CAT is there to haul your *** out - not to prevent incidents.


Edit to reflect a issue BR and I just talked about.

The olden days of CP work are gone -- in this case there is no unique principal being guarded -- the insurgents are eager to bust any head --
The detailed ambushes of Peruvian Narco-Terrorists are not lying in wait along a roadside - BUT - some one driving around or walking in groups waiting for something to strike their fancy.

 

[armyintheafterlife]

"Those other factors include job security, and appealing to the soldiers' sense of patriotism, reminding them that the satisfaction that comes from serving one's country is something that private security firms simply will never offer."

Lt.Kent Penney had better do a reality check as to his above comment!
It's not only the JTF who are leaving but many others because of the lack "PATRIOTISM" our Govenment has given us for many years!
Its a two way street.

Right you are Earl.

 

[starlight_cdn]

I risked my hide for a lot less with no one giving a crap back in the early nineties in the Balkans. I understand why PMC/PSD work is so interesting.

There seems to be a push on for experienced operator/medics recently. I heard it was due to some mandated requirement for teams by DOS. Is that true? What is the word?

I see a lot of familiar on-line handles from other forums.....lightfighter,gunnutz. These are some experienced operators posting some excellent Intel. Most would be wise to listen. KevinB, thanks for the AAR on the 6004. I got one for my Glock.Very satisfied.

 

[Meatpuppet]

I thought the CF were a Private security firm!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Once again, despite repeated warnings, guidance and being banned from the chat room on numerous occasions, we have another that thinks it's his rightful place to come to Mr Bobbitt's house and start acting like an elephant in the living room.

Another one that's wrong.