Junk Food In Schools

[winchable]

We will still have fat kids and menacing dogs so long as people neglet their individual responsibility

While I agree that its ridiculous for certain breeds of dogs to be banned, I cannot agree that fat kids are entirely a personal responsibility.
I know I know, blame everyone but themselves etc.
The point of my argument is that unhealthy food has become as much a part of modern culture as the internet or anything else.
It's the duty of the government after years of neglecting what is a HUGE (PUN) problem and has become so socially acceptable that we are complacent about this to a point where we think putting healthy food in schools is a bad idea?!?!

Unhealthy food is as damaging for you as smoking, accept it or not I don't care, and no one complains because cigarettes aren't sold in schools!

 

[Goober]

The kids are not to blame, nor the government. Its the parents for introducing junk foods into the kids diet at a young age. There are plenty of fruits and vegis out there that are pleasing to the taste, that parents can give as snacks instead of a bag of chips. Then when the kid is old enough to goto a corner store on his own, maybe he/she'll buy a bottle of orange juice instead of a Pepsi.

I think removing junk foods from schools is a good thing. If the kids want junk food that badly, they walk to go get it (corner store).

 

[NavyGrunt]

I really cant believe that people are defending selling super sugary zero nutritional foods being sold at schools. Just because you can walk accross the street and buy them doesnt mean that tjhe should be shoved in your face everytime you walk down the hallway. Providing acceptable good for you alternatives is the schools responsibility. Just as it is my responsibility to make wise decisions it is the governments responsibilty to see to the health of the children in its care. There is a reason that snack food companies want their products in schools- when you walk by the machine all day long you are more likely to buy. You are influenced. And children to an even larger extent. These kids mow down sugar all day then come online and complain because they cant do 10 pushups without their man breasts hurting. Its killing the kids. Im not over dramatizing either.

 

[winchable]

Its killing the kids. Im not over dramatizing either

You really aren't.
I would garauntee that statistics will show the instances of Diabetes is shooting up! Why? Because its so natural to see a pop machine in a halway at school.
It's become so freakin' acceptable for a 15 year old to chug 4 cans of Coke a day.
Does no one actually consider the consequences of this?
Consider, everyone, how much sugar is in a can of pop. Sugar is neccessary to live, natural sugar in fruits, milk, etc. A snack every once in a while is fine, but realistically this kind of thing is going to start killing kids!

Parents won't do anything either, hell they'll give them $5 to get a nice fatty lunch so they don't have to cook. The government apparently isn't allowed to do anything anymore and when they don't someone will complain they didn't. So I say good on the schools for taking a step in the right direction.

I think the argument should be less about personal responsibility when we've got a culture like the one we do now where it's commonplace to see a Mcd's on every corner, a pop machine in every hall, bags of chips for miles. When it becomes a societal problem, so deeply ingrained, like I said similar to tabacco, it becomes societys job to fix it.

 

[Bograt]

All good points. I, however have the opinion that government is playing too great a role in my personal life. Recent judicial rulings have ruled that  a person's speeding ticket or traffic ticket are unconstitutional because the defendant did not have access to both official languages (RCMP officer arresting a speeder and the ticket was thrown out due to the fact the officer didn't speak English, or the fellow that made an illegal turn but because the sign wasn't in both languages his ticket was thrown out- the driver didn't even speak french)

People need to start taking responsibility for their actions, and they should be held accountable. One of the reasons why vending machines are found in schools is because a) they paid a fee to place it there and these fees go to the school board, or b) school boards are not providing access to quality food. Both are the result of government underfunding. If government is serious about the problem then they should increase fund for quality food service or increase fund to offset the fees collected from vending machines. The ban on junkfood is a smoke screen of what the real issue is- their neglet- their responsibility.

 

[winchable]

If government is serious about the problem then they should increase fund for quality food service

I thought that would be implicit with the removing junk food

 

[Scott]

Bograt, good point, I was waiting for someone to hit that one.

Schools are paid by the soft drink companies to have their machines in the school. Usually the money goes to sporting and other extra curricular activities, that's how they can say that they promote a healthy, active lifestyle when they know damn well that their concoction is addictive and bad for us.

While I was growing up I didn't get pop, ever. I can only remember starting to drink it when I was about 11 or so, my Dad would buy me a can after a hockey game for the ride home. If I wanted a snack it was graham crackers and juice or milk, didn't harm me one bit. I succumb now to fast food, I am always on the go and when I am on the road I sometimes have no other alternative, but more and more I am trying to get salads and stuff eat at a restaurant that is more "homestyle" I have noticed a difference since I started doing this. I have also just about cut pop out of my intake (Save for my Black Seal Rum and Cokes) I drink iced tea, lemonade, water or watered down powerade. I rely on my body to get work done and if the day comes that I can't do the job because I am a sad sack of McDonald's charfing lard then I'll be out on my ear or dead, that's pretty simple motivation. Where I work we promote healthy eating as much as possible because we may go on the road for a month at a time and we need guys to stay healthy, you can't be healthy if you're lining the Root Bear's pockets with every meal.

-END RANT-

 

[NavyGrunt]

People need to start taking responsibility for their actions, and they should be held accountable.

Peoples inability to take responsibility lead us to this point. Well over half of us are obese and we have to drop physical standards to accomidate beefy titted male teenagers. I pay taxes for medicare- medicare that is being abused by fat asses nation wide because of the over saturation of our society with everything bad for us.

As for schools not having enough money thats another issue entirely.You dont let drug dealers peddle on school grounds because you will get a cut. I dont sell porn to children to buy hockey equipment. You dont turn a blind eye to junk food lovin kids because your uniforms look old.

 

[alan_li_13]

I think taking all junk food is an excellent idea. I always discourage my cadets from pop and junk.
When i was at camp doing D&C this summer, our WO would give chits if we had coke in our hand on lines during trg hours. I think that was great.

 

[winchable]

You dont turn a blind eye to junk food lovin kids because your uniforms look old

bang-on,
You wouldn't have a cigarette vending machine on school property even if the proceeds were going to put a roof on the school.
The central thesis to my argument.
Junk Food and fast food have become socially acceptable when in fact it is the edible equivalent of cigarettes.
There is nothing normal about pop, there is nothing normal about fast food and that has to be made abundantly clear and a start is by removing it from the schools.
We as a society, as obesity is a societal problem in the fast food generation, have to put the brakes on fast food and junk food NOW instead of in 20 years when enough people have died from obesity that they do something about it.

 

[Bograt]

Che and Aaron you raise good points. Its hard to argue that junk food is good, or that it should be in our schools. My wife is a music teacher in Newfoundland. The school board gives her $100.00 to buy supplies for her program every year. One hundred dollars including tax to purchase new band scores, instruments, field trips and photocopying. As you might see, this is a ridiculous amount. There are some schools in my area that only receive physical education classes for half a year, and it is 3 hours in a 6 day cycle.

The question isn't whether junk food is bad, but rather the priorities are wrong. Taking vending machines out of schools doesn't cost anything- and believe it or not will not decrease the percentage of obese kids in our society. To suggest this one would have to conclude that children were getting fat as a result of these vending machines. No, they are getting fat because the average kid spends 6-8 hours in front of the TV. Sixty hours a week (including weekends). Now if we had a very "progressive government" (a la Brave New World), imagine if they decided to regulate the amount of TV our kids watched. Legislation would be in place to automatically turn off the TV once a child viewed his limit of 30 minutes a day. Excuse me, but that is my role as a parent. The metaphor is a bit of a stretch I know, but I hope you can see the underlying point I am trying to make. What they are trying to do is to convince us that they are doing something, but in reality they are not addressing the problem. They are instead taking a greater role in the raising of my children. Last I checked they didn't play a significant role during the conception, and they shouldn't be there to substitute my role as a father.

Looking forward to your rebuttal

 

[Northern Touch]

I would garauntee that statistics will show the instances of Diabetes is shooting up! Why? Because its so natural to see a pop machine in a halway at school.

Although eating a lot of sugary foods or dirnking a lot of pop may, and i stress MAY be a cause of Diabetes, so are many other things.  With my sister and my cousin being Diabetic, I was asked to enter a study because apparently by comparing blood samples they can actually tell if yuo will become susceptable to the desiese.  Although i never had the chance to go (i was on Ex the weekend the blood tests were begin taken) I do know that a diabetes can also be inherited.  My sister was told that it is normally passed down through the mothers side of the family.  on top of that, obesity causes type 2 and they haven't found a real determinant cause for type 1.  I ate A LOT more sugary foods then my sister, but she got it and I didn't, so saying that because pop machines are in hallways increases Diabetes doesn't really fit. 

Unhealthy diet does though, and that unhealthy diet would lead back to the problem that kids and adults a like arn't eating healthiest foods around anymore.  I can't believe that people can blame the govermnet for the child getting fat and unfit.  It is the parents responsiblilty to instill in their child good eating habits and fitness.  Hell, I could never have desert unless I ate all my vegtables and finished what was in my plate.

To blame the gov't and schools for your child being overweight is like blaming the gov't and schools for your child not getting 90% because the teacher isn't teaching properly when infact, your child just has no work ethic.

 

[NMPeters]

Although I don't disagree with removing vending machines from elementary schools (why the hell are parents giving their kids money to eat out of these machines anyway), I am in complete agreement with Bograt. The Ontario Government is becoming more and more like Big Brother everyday. They don't address the problems, they simply throw a legislation at it and think that this sort of band-aid solution will solve it all. And the Minister of Health is being the worst of them all.

Two weeks ago, he wanted to introduce legislation that stated that all fish that was going into sushi had to be frozen for at least 4 days. Oh me, oh my there are bacteria in them thar fish. What protein source doesn't have any sign of bacteria in it? So, instead of educating the public about the possible risks of eating raw fish, he threw down "legislation". Then a few days after that he stated that he wants to introduce legislation that will make it illegal for parents with children to smoke in their cars. Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that smoking in vehicles with children is a good thing. I'm a smoker but don't own any children so it wouldn't affect me anyway. The problem I see, is that, again, instead of educating the public, he wants legislation. The next day it was a legislation to make it illegal to smoke in your own home if you have children. Then it was the legislation against owning pitbulls and for those who already own them there will be stringent laws for when the dog is out in public. Now it's the vending machines in schools. And, he just released this huge study, which probably cost us tax payers millions of dollars, to discover that driving to and from work, or being a cab driver, in essence driving a lot, can cause elevated stress and increase your risk for heart disease. And as a driver, I have one word to say to that: DUH! And he needed to study this.....why? We all know that elevated stress increases heart disease. We all know that rush hour traffic raises our stress levels. So are we now going to get a legislation as to how many hours we can drive during a certain timeframe? This is all within a matter of two weeks. And quite frankly I find that it is getting out of hand. Is it now coming down to the point where officials will be knocking on the door of MY house to see if I have children and to see if I'm smoking around them? Or maybe we need to register ourselves as smoker and they can put cameras in our homes to monitor it. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Let's not get into the debate here about the health risks of smoking. We all know it. The point I'm trying to make is, legislation of these things is not the answer to the problems. Yes Che, you are right. As a society we need to fix the things that we have allowed to make us unhealthy. That means educating our children about the benefits of healthy eating and exercise and actually packing a lunch for them to take to school as opposed to throwing a couple of bucks at them everyday so that they can eat. It also means turning off the tv/computer/xbox and telling the kids to go outside and play and playing with them. It means taking the responsibility for our children and not smoking around them, if one smokes, AT ANY TIME (which I think that most responsible parents do anyway). It means going to the sushi bar and making an informed decision as an adult (since it's unlikely that there are a lot of children in this country who will quaff down a large plate of raw fish) to determine whether I see an inherent risk in eating that piece or two of sushi. It means, as an adult, that I am allowed to decide on what breed of dog I wish to purchase and then take the responsibility of it and those it comes into contact with (because it doesn't end with pitbulls. They're not the only aggressive breed of dog out there).

However, the Ontario Government is not allowing us to make those decisions. They are "illegalizing" (not a word, I know) instead of teaching. Do I think that the Ontario Government (or the Federal for that matter) should make smoking illegal? As a smoker, you bet I do. Will they? Not likely since a huge portion of their tax dollars come from cigarette sales. We are all educated on the health risks of smoking. But instead of legislating what I can or cannot do in the very vehicle that I make payments on, and the very home that I pay a mortgage for, maybe they should look at allowing stop smoking aids and programs to be part of OHIP (which we now have to pay for). And let's include a vigorous gym program into the schools and regular instruction on diet and nutrition. I remember getting that in health class as a kid. Oh, and for those of you who think that juice is such a better alternative for kids to drink than pop, have you looked on a juice lable lately at the sugar content? They don't sell juice, other than orange. It's coloured sugar water. Education is the key. Legislation isn't. Big Brother is starting to watch.

Sorry to rant on ad nauseum here and for adding more to this discussion than the thread title. This has been a real sore spot for me for the last couple of weeks.  :-\

 

[winchable]

I ate A LOT more sugary foods then my sister, but she got it and I didn't, so saying that because pop machines are in hallways increases Diabetes doesn't really fit.

Perhaps, but a single case is hardly convincing (no offence intended I do feel sympathy, my friend has diabetes) I was sort of pointing to pop machines as a part of the problem. The real problem is how we're constantly bombarded with advertising, sometimes you can't shut it out and that's scary.

I think most of the central arguments against (Though I don't see how one can still actually be against) are centralized around the "big brother government" idea.
Which is understandable, if you're not a devout socialista you probably despise the government being involved in more than they should be.
I believe on this we will have to agree to disagree.

Taking vending machines out of schools doesn't cost anything- and believe it or not will not decrease the percentage of obese kids in our society.

not the absolute solution but definetly a start in the right direction

I think Perhaps I've somewhat strayed from my original slightly less complicated idea.
It's not a fix, it's not a band-aid, but it's definetly the part of a larger cure.

Now rather than simply just eliminating junk food and vending machines from schools, I'd ideally like to see them:
A)Introduce a mandatory physical activity class for all 3 years, teaching nutrition as well as getting the kids active (and sweaty much to the dismay of many I'd imagine

B)Campaign against fast food, yeah..take on the monster.

C)Spend the extra money introducing healthier food into cafeterias to accompany the lessons learned in part A

D)Parents (and this is where government responsibility ends) have to wake up and realise that Mcdonalds and burger king and wendys are not wholesome places where you can take the family on sunday anymore, they're evil corporate monkeys you are putting on their kid's backs. They're in it for the money and they know they can get away with increasing size of pop, adding flavour (FaT) to fries because they're the socially acceptable cigarette.

Obviously we'd all like a government with a set of balls, who are willing to take on something like fast food, instead of something like a bunch of vending machines. Lets try and be pragmatic about it though.

The big picture:If taking vending machines with pop, chocolate bars etc. out of schools will cost nothing, could arguably be a part of a program to improve the health of children today, then go for it.
It's really..really hard to argue that putting pop, chocolate bars and chips out of schools won't make any difference at all.

 

[NavyGrunt]

Excuse me, but that is my role as a parent. The metaphor is a bit of a stretch I know, but I hope you can see the underlying point I am trying to make. What they are trying to do is to convince us that they are doing something, but in reality they are not addressing the problem. They are instead taking a greater role in the raising of my children. Last I checked they didn't play a significant role during the conception, and they shouldn't be there to substitute my role as a father.

Looking forward to your rebuttal

Every member of society has a vested interest in ensuring that children grow up into well rounded individuals. If you are doing your job as a parent it wont be an issue. I do believe that the government does have to regulate things if parents refuse to do their jobs. However I do believe that the money spent banning things like "animals"(which is absurd) could be put into the school system so people like your wife can do their jobs effectively. My point is that SOME parents need an assload of help and thats where the government comes in.

 

[Bograt]

My point is that SOME parents need an assload of help and thats where the government comes in.

I am enjoying this debate. Well done to all. Che your view of the role of government is polar opposite to mine.

Regarding Aaron's statement quoted above, I would like to firmly introduce that government can not legislate against stupidity.
Lets extend this hypothetical debate one step further. What if government legislated that Social Services could take custody of your children if they became overweight? Not a bad idea. But what if government then legislated what kinds of food you could purchase at home? hmmmm..... Okay, what if then the legislate that all children must be in bed by 7:00 pm.

Trudeau the great socialist said government must not be in the bedrooms of our nation. I would suggest that they shouldn't be in our kitchens as well.

(I never thought I would quote Trudeau on this board. )

Cheers,

Looking forward to your response.

 

[Alex252]

A good way to get people my age to stop eating out is to see Super Size Me. We are seeing it in gym right now and i think no one wants Mc'Ds ever again!

 

[NavyGrunt]

Im not sure where that line is supposed to be drawn Bograt, thats why Im not in government. The government should "stay out of the bed rooms" yes. But public schools are most certainly fair game. If you want your kid to have access to junk food everywhere he goes then shop around to private schools. Just like the religious groups and gifted students do. The governemnt funded public schools are going to do as the government wills. If you dont like it have your kids go somewhere else.

 

[Garbageman]

Interesting discussion we have going on here.

I am 110% in favour of this ban, and think it needs to be extended to include High Schools.  Yes, junk food is available across the street.  But guess what, teenagers are generally lazy.  If you make them have to go outside (especially in winter) to get a junk fix, a lot of them won't bother.  But when you make this crap readily accessible, of course they're going to buy it.  I have students coming into my class at 8:00am with a Coke in their hands.  But if you made them bring that junk from home, at least then the parents would be able to enforce limits on its amount.

I eat in the cafeteria at my school on a regular basis (yes, I'm that brave), and I think that there are many healthy choices available.  Today, for example, I had a turkey sandwich with tomato and some veggie sticks.  But when you place that right next to a bin full of fries or a tray of pizza, it can require a lot of willpower out of a student, particularly when the junk food is almost always cheaper.  If the junk wasn't there as an option, it wouldn't be such a big deal, and hopefully the healthy food would be cheaper as they would be selling more of it.

As a side note, I just finished showing Supersize Me to my Grade 10 Civics class.  They loved it, and hopefully learned a thing or two along the way.     

 

[winchable]

Che your view of the role of government is polar opposite to mine.

Haha was it the name that gave it away?
Yeah you're not the only one, no worries, most of my fellow senior board members say "Alright...lets agree to disagree"

I would suggest that they shouldn't be in our kitchens as well

They already are.
I disagree with the animal ban, but the food ban I can't do anything but love.
I think the problem with the "each individual is responsible for their own" argument lacks a great deal.
I've seen many cultures and the most well rounded young people come from the ones where the community (Which can be as little as a few families, or as large as a precinct) takes a great deal of responsibility in raising each child.

Banning the junk is as far as I can see, just a broader community.
I just think that no matter how much we debate the issue the facts of the matter are: Pop is not good for you it's not even neutral it's bad. There is nothing in candy bars that will help you.
We're dealing with people going through the formative years of their lives, the least we can do is protect our future interests (Public education RE;Investments) from junk shyte food that isn't going to contribute to their studies or give them a clean bill of health.

Like i said, the debate here seems to be very much about how much the government can and can't do...so..I will say it stops at the bedroom absolutely, but the kitchen, community and most importantly the schools is a place the government, which we invest a great deal of trust in, should get the call.
Of course thankfully we have every right to constantly question our governments decisions and I'd encourage everyone here who disagrees with the junkfood ban in any school to write in saying "I believe you should return the vending machines to the schools"